I think I understand what you are getting at in your very lengthy post about the Reformation.
You are likening the Streetcar community to Martin Luther and his followers that were courageous enough to stand up to the Catholic Church to demand reform of 95 doctrines that were suspect. - e.g. heresies, bullying, robbing the poor to give to the already rich church, indulgences etc. Paul K. has covered a lot of that in his 6 point letter which is available for the general public to read at their leisure and paralells can be easily recognizable therein.
However, thanks for the history lesson and we do respect your views.
You were right. I did misread your original comment - apologies for that. I do understand you are trying to make an historical connection between the Reformation and our struggle on Streetcar as we deal with the effects of having been manipulated by a narcissistic meglomaniac.
The point is that unlike Luther we are not trying to bring down the BCF etc system - although many would like to see it happen. We are just trying to support each other to get through another day living with the effects of being in a destructive cult and re-building our lives.
I appreciate that you see us as a bunch of people deeply hurting over personal abuse but am not sure what you mean when you say "who have largely stepped away from seeing any influence of an all seeing and all loving God who created them."
Thank you Wendy. From experience over the years, very few people actually admit it, and it shows your honesty. I appreciate your response.You were right. I did misread your original comment - apologies for that.
I had actually already chosen to walk away, and I only saw this last post because "firefox" had included this page among the list it posted when I clicked to start it it.
A forum like this ought not discourage people who come because they are hurting, and I may have done that.
If so, I am sorry..
In what many of us call the "real world" many folk don't realise that there may be another (quite valid) viewpoint !
Yes, and thank you again. You hit the nail on the head there. "Manipulated" is a very good word. May I point you towards a page I completed writing in 2010 about how corruption has spread like wildfire into the modern church, a page called "Compromise". The opening paragraphs give an insight into an humungous wrestle I was having within myself about "Should I write this, or not? http://wildernesschristianity.net/compromise.htmlI do understand you are trying to make an historical connection between the Reformation and our struggle on Streetcar as we deal with the effects of having been manipulated by a narcissistic megalomaniac.
You may have heard of Keith Green. After he and his kids died in a light aircraft accident years ago, his widow Melody wrote a book of their life story, as they lived their code of "No Compromise" which you may read about in my original "serious" website called "oldsite.eagles-lair.org" - the page is at http://oldsite.eagles-lair.org/kgreen.htm
Actually that was not what Luther set out to do, and it was only when he he discovered just how corrupt the establishment was that he would have realised that was what was needed. The 95 theses were all, every one of them, solely about "Plenary Indulgences". The rest of the differences he pointed out LATER followed as and when they were uncovered, having been successfully hidden by the established church.The point is that unlike Luther we are not trying to bring down the BCF etc system - although many would like to see it happen.
As I understand the history - though some may disagree with me, I am firmly convinced that what were called "Lutherans" were no different from Roman Catholics apart from progressively rejecting certain corrupt beliefs.
If we look at the "Church of England" also derived in the same era by Archbishop Geoffrey Cranmer from the Roman Catholic Church, it was similarly adapted. At least Cranmer had the backing of the Parliament (Germany not being one sovereign country, that was not possible for Luther, after all). However, when the king's older daughter - referred to as "Bloody" Mary came to the throne (she was a "Papist" by the way) - Cranmer was burned at the stake for heresy. But not until 13-year-old teen boy "Master Ridley" had also been executed first for heresy, many seeing this as a public example to the plebs in the pews to not buck the system.
- Edit: This is perhaps the key to why the Reformation succeeded - few people in the pews understood the foreign language used in the services. It was actually a "capital offence" - a crime which carried the death sentence - to OWN a copy of any of the scriptures in your own native language. I'm serious.
Wycliffe wasn't the only translator into the English language who was executed when caught. His work continues in Australia (Kangaroo Ground in country Victoria) to this day. performed by skilled volunteers.
No, BCF teachings haven't actually executed anyone. But they have permanently damaged many congregants/parishioners/whathaveyou.
So true. We were talking the other day (in what cyber-people call "real life") that in our nation of multitudinous volunteers that people willing to help are getting fewer, and may I voice a personal opinion that perhaps a major reason that there weren't as many "formal" NO voters might be because the whole yes-no thing was disguised as an optional "opinion" rather than a vote cast by the public. That statement has to be true because a referendum or an actual election vote specifically is not allowed to have the detailed voting message continually "shouted at us" through the media.We are just trying to support each other to get through another day living with the effects of being in a destructive cult and re-building our lives.
While not actually bagging the government of the day - which refused to call it a referendum - that was the obvious effect it was going to have.
Now they are claiming it was a vote of the people so the parliament has "open slather" to misinterpret it. "We the people" gave them that false impression, didn't we?
Just like when we as individuals made the choice to agree to accept whatever is untrue from the pulpit, surely? Precious little difference as I see it. Untrue is lies, isn't it?
I have been taught that all my life. I have not always recognised that subtlety, but I make mistakes!
Bless you all.
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