How unique is BCF/MCF's brand of cultishness (especially the last 25 Vic Hall years)?

Spiritual or Earthy?? You be the judge.
Bagel
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Re: How unique is BCF/MCF's brand of cultishness (especially the last 25 Vic Hall years)?

Post by Bagel » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:44 pm

Paul Kovaks wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:30 am
Honestly, for me, I was simply trying to live the Book of Acts. Pure and simple. No other agenda.
Hi Paul,

Thanks again for your astute and timely observations of B/MCF. I feel for you so much, I think you have been done over by these people. It burns me to think of it. Especially when the message that I/we thought we were hearing was about living this wonderful thing that was filled with the Holy Spirit and we would be walking talking vessels of God.

I am deeply concerned that your skills and potential in life were so horribly oppressed. I find it egregious and offensive that deluded unskilled amateurs were given such responsibility to prevent your potential.

I followed your link regarding the book, Playing With Fire. It looks excellent. It has some great reviews, especially from people who are PhD’s and scholars. Whether the swamp people care to admit it or not, bible scholarship does not begin and end with people who buy land next to effluent plants or who love the smell of rotting detritus in their back yard.

Take care,

Bagel

Bagel
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Re: How unique is BCF/MCF's brand of cultishness (especially the last 25 Vic Hall years)?

Post by Bagel » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:04 am

Faith Hopegood wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:11 pm
Vic would not have even blinked when he backstabbed Graham Harry, Steve Hall, Murray Wylie and David Falk! .....I'll wager that Vic probably spent many nights in his study thinking up ways to get rid of the people who irritated him and probably had a wry smile when it all went down. Just like the wry smile that Vic would have had when Ray Jackson Snr fell from grace.
Greetings Faith,

And I think there we have it. A ‘leader’ with no signs of love or grace. And I would go much further actually but that will suffice for now.

The biggest thing that struck me when I committed a misdemeanour was the Jeckell and Hyde of the likes of little Wylie Jnr (Muzza) and his band of wannabes. I even said to them, I’m sorry, I know I’ve made a mistake but why the harsh judgment, where is the love from the New Testament, where is the fraternity of our sisters and brothers? I even quoted some biblical passages in a collegial way. I was of course roundly condemned with ‘how dare you quote the bible to us’.

The lights went on for me at that point. The anger they immediately snapped into was a total giveaway. These were not people filled with the Holy Spirit, these were not people engaged in the teachings of the New Testament, these were man-childs with immature suppressed anger that bubbled over at a moment’s notice. These were children, not leaders. Yawn.

I’ve seen plenty of ambitious immature people in lots of walks of life. These were no different, they were just peddling redemption, thinking they were more important than the message. It happens everywhere, just in this case they’re in a small, small fishpond (swamp?) and so the checks and balances aren’t present so that they can grow and mature.

And that’s the problem here, unchecked power.

Bagel
Last edited by Bagel on Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

robocop
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Re: How unique is BCF/MCF's brand of cultishness (especially the last 25 Vic Hall years)?

Post by robocop » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:41 am

And that’s the problem here, unchecked power.
Yes, Bagel, I totally concur with you. Looking back to the period when Vic & Alex used to meet with the other leaders of the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement, (was in mid 70's), I think that's why Immanuel (as it was called then) withdrew from those meetings, because Vic would have felt threatened by those ministers. He did not want anyone telling him that his brand was off.

Bagel
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Re: How unique is BCF/MCF's brand of cultishness (especially the last 25 Vic Hall years)?

Post by Bagel » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:59 am

Hi robocop,

So if Vic withdrew, was it because he felt threatened by other professionals? But did he meet with Alex anyway? Or did Alex subtly shepherd Vic (until he could move in and co-captain the ship!)?

Maybe Alex had more skills and was more ambitious than even Vic could detect. Or was their union a marriage of convenience? Was it only after Alex was no longer there that Vic started really ramping up the power frenzy?

I’d also be interested to know if little Muzza would have been beheaded in Alex’s day. Does anyone know if Muzza is still feeding on the teat of papa Vic (ie tithe) or if he’s on the scrap heap?

Bagel

Charity
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Re: How unique is BCF/MCF's brand of cultishness (especially the last 25 Vic Hall years)?

Post by Charity » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:38 am

No need to be on the tithe as he is pension age
and providing he is elligible, he will collect. As are some of the others you mention. Why should BCF fork out when the Govt can. Just abuse them a bit more and they will run away.

Bagel
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Re: How unique is BCF/MCF's brand of cultishness (especially the last 25 Vic Hall years)?

Post by Bagel » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:49 pm

Hmm, so possibly just a fiscal policy to help the balance sheet; get them defrocked at around pension age, shove them out the door and get the taxpayer to shoulder the burden.

But was little Muzza living in the swamp grounds? Or did he have to move out?

My how the mighty have fallen.

Bagel

Faith Hopegood
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Re: How unique is BCF/MCF's brand of cultishness (especially the last 25 Vic Hall years)?

Post by Faith Hopegood » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:17 pm

Bagel,
I think you might be right in your thinking and I wouldn't put it past Vic to do this. I am sure this type of thinking and planning was factored into BCF punting Raymond Guyatt some years ago when Vic knew that Raymond could go on the pension. It may be worth doing a little research on the ages of the various elders who have received Vic's right boot of fellowship. I wouldn't mind betting that most were around retirement/pension age or a year or two short of it.

BCF has a long history of cutting people loose under dubious circumstances when it suited them (Vic) best. This was a particularly attractive option if Vic got to consolidate power and seize ownership of assets at the same time. I have been present in meetings with Elders in the past when they raised all sorts of ideas as to how to rip off church employees rather than just pay them the going proper rate plus super.

robocop
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Re: How unique is BCF/MCF's brand of cultishness (especially the last 25 Vic Hall years)?

Post by robocop » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:30 pm

BCF has a long history of cutting people loose under dubious circumstances when it suited them (Vic) best.
Very true Faith, in fact they will nearly all be of Pension Age now (Bill Barnes probably well into his 70's now), so Vic deals very efficiently with the issue by flicking them off to Centrelink to apply for the Age Pension. I'm sure there was never any proviso for looking after the elderly in BCF (Vic's) plans.

As he often reminded us [The Church is not to be used as a Crutch], but you can be sure there will be ample funds for his Retirement Plan, and his extended family.

Faith Hopegood
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Re: How unique is BCF/MCF's brand of cultishness (especially the last 25 Vic Hall years)?

Post by Faith Hopegood » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:46 am

Yes, you are quite right Robocop. Standing back and taking a long term view of BCF activities over the past 20 years or so, what we see is a transfer and consolidation of assets (as well as consolidation of decision making power) directly to the Hall family in Brisbane. Boundary Riders great investigative work clearly shows that Vic has his handpicked lackeys and minions controlling the management board of every single regional CF. Additionally Boundary Rider has pulled out financial statements over the years that show Vic's activities to gain control of millions of dollars of assets (both real estate and cash). One that comes to mind (and the facts are a little hazy) is the incident with Graham Harry and Vic, whereby Vic basically blackmailed Graham Harry by holding his previous marriage to ransom and then somehow Vic gain control over land assets that included some land at Beachmere that was worth a substantial amount. Once Vic gained control of the assets, Graham Harry was given the right boot of fellowship as well as Vic taking an active role in breaking up his marriage.

This modus operandi has been repeated in several regional CF's whereby the local leader worked to build up the congregation and building real estate, only to have Vic step in when the opportune moment arose, defrock the leader in disgrace, then seize control of the assets.

I suppose the old adage holds true for Vic's methods, "when you're on a good thing, stick with it!" (making Vic rich that is).

A person with a cynical mind might even be lead to think the whole Christian Fellowship system is just merely a business/cash cow to keep the Hall dynasty supplied with $$$. Supporting evidence of this theory is the constant and regular stream of possible competitors who are defrocked and given the right boot of fellowship.

Wendy
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Re: How unique is BCF/MCF's brand of cultishness (especially the last 25 Vic Hall years)?

Post by Wendy » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:16 am

To answer the question of what Murray Wylie is doing - a quick search on Google finds he is teaching at a university somewhere with a TESOL qualification and doing a Masters in Education. If you can stand to read his latest drivel check out this page: https://murraywylie.com I wasn't convinced until I checked the 'contact' page and saw the photo.

So, he is probably not on the pension and would have a fair bit of superannuation stashed away so I don't think he will be suffering too much.

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