What do YOU think is CORRECT (& not well acknowledged by others) in the MCF/BCF teachings/culture?

Spiritual or Earthy?? You be the judge.
Paul Kovaks
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Re: What do YOU think is CORRECT (& not well acknowledged by others) in the MCF/BCF teachings/culture?

Post by Paul Kovaks » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:27 pm

For some reason I didn't get alerts from your replies folks!

Thanks for your replies.

I think I can say I agree with much of what you've all said.

EXCEPT
1. Eschatology
The pattern of a creative & redemptive week of history still makes sense to Jeff Hammond, myself and my creation scientist father.

Of course it was always slightly crazy trying to calculate dates (given ' no one knows the day or the hour') but you'd be nuts not to try with a simple formula like that (especially if you're techy) and especially given (1) Daniel's prophecy which seems to predict the 1st coming to within a few years accuracy & (2) predicting a year is not a day or hour anyway.

As a teenager I calculated that it was either 1970, 2000 or 2030 depending on whether using Jewish years or not and whether we started at Christ's birth or death. The 2030 date always made the most sense measured using normal years (since the Jews added 13th months anyway of course and starting from Christ's death) and still witnesses to me (+- X years for calendar inaccuracy and God's delays etc).

Sounds fearful but we need to be ready for HIm any day anyway. I hated that people used it to tell people not to study or buy houses or get married or have kids. That always disgusted me.

The Daniel thing about 'cut off in the midst of the week' always made sense too (giving Christ's ministry in 2x 3.5 year periods matching Rev).

Then of course there's the issue of what happens at the 'date'. The 2nd coming or a whole series of beginnings of the end that might span decades. Who knows, although if the 'space of half an hour in heaven' in Rev which might be the Day of Atonement equates (in 1000 year day measures) to a possible additional 21 year period. Who knows.

The import thing is it's LIKELY to be near and we need to always be ready. It doesn't matter if we get it wrong because the disciples thought it was in THEIR time! And Jesus even let them think it too because they had their own trials as the early church and the 70AD sacking of Jerusalem. We're certainly in an unprecedented time of godlessness.

2. Culture
Some of the early culture in home groups was true priesthood of all believers. Then Vic destroyed it completely.

Thanomere84
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Re: What do YOU think is CORRECT (& not well acknowledged by others) in the MCF/BCF teachings/culture?

Post by Thanomere84 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:42 am

Paul Kovaks wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:49 am
* Multiple eldership (but they bungled it badly with Ray/Vic/elder worship)
* Priesthood of all believers/gifts of the Spirit (Vic almost completely destroyed this of course)
* End times (creative/redemptive week, tabernacle teachings etc from Offiler)
* Bible studies (focussed, all-in, direction for the church, absent in many churches)
* Home groups all-ages in one (great job here in my experience knitting together generations, absent in many churches)

I think most of the good stuff came from Offiler/Bethel Temple/Latter Rain and Ray/Vic et al mostly RUINED it I have to say. There might have been some good days early on.

What do you think?
Paul, you're absolutely right in that most of the good and sound doctrine comes from Offiler, Bethel Temple, W.W. Patterson, Kevin Conner and other such visionary men who had none of the evil tendencies of R.J.J. or the power-crazed nature of Vic. I have been studying in a well-recognised seminary, the Tung Ling Seminary - and a LOT of good doctrines from Offiler, Kevin Conner and W.W. Patterson and such other wonderful men of the Word have been given to us as study material.

To be fair, despite how much I despise and hold Vic in utter contempt, that man did make some rather diligent efforts to build up a true multiple eldership structure (IN THE BEGINNING OF MY TIME ASSOCIATING WITH HIM ONLY - not in the middle-ending phases of my time spent with him). I suspect, though, that any and all such genuine intentions in Vic died out with the passing of Alex Wylie. Alex Wylie was a mentoring figure and probably was Vic's only tether to sanity, and once the Lord called him home, Vic went down the slippery slope with his delusions of grandeur and dictatorial strategies.

Home groups all-ages in one was indeed one of the good things - and may I add, in the early 90s, that entire now-rotten administration used to actually be quite admirable, as they were VERY enthusiastic in calling for a family-based church, with a family-based worship style on Sunday. Kids would be asked up to the stage to read some verses, or perhaps a youth would be called up to pray, or perhaps a brother or sister would come up, share about a song that meant something to him/her, and the congregation would sing that song. Everyone could participate. That was the closest it ever got to 'priesthood of all believers'. It was truly everyone having a chance to express their worship on stage - and now all that's left of those wonderful days is that mockery they call 'body ministry'. Makes me sick to even think about it.

Paul Kovaks
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Re: What do YOU think is CORRECT (& not well acknowledged by others) in the MCF/BCF teachings/culture?

Post by Paul Kovaks » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:09 pm

Yes Than, I had some good chats with Richie Kaa before I left in Nov 2016 about body ministry being only a poor man's priesthood of all believers.
I pointed out how it says 'everyone hath' with reference to 'instruction'.
That's not a 30 seconds body-ministry sound bite.
He agreed and started having people get up.
But only the sold out ones preaching the same stuff.

I still get their devotions. I read one a month to see what they ar eup to.
It's so sad. It's almost the same more than 2 years on.
This month I've noticed they are actually addressing a few everyday issues.

But, in general, it's incredible how they got us to sit and listen to the same stuff year after year since around 1992.
And I realized it at the time.
But thought it's because we are so stubborn.

But I am coping better with time passing.

I'm just sad for those in there.

I dropped in on David Bonham recently and only got to speak to his wife.
For the first time I heard from her mouth how MCF must treat what happened.

She said, "Oh, you want to know David's thoughts about 'your lot'."

'My lot'.

That is how they refer to what David and Laurie and Steve and Steve and Ray and Vic did to my life.

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