So what’s the situation at Toowoomba Christian Fellowship? ----

Boundary Rider
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So what’s the situation at Toowoomba Christian Fellowship? ----

Post by Boundary Rider » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:26 pm

It’s been curious to me that since Streetcar came back to life several weeks ago that nothing had yet appeared on the Topic “Toowoomba Christian Fellowship” until Thursday June 22nd.

My well known curiosity often sends me down rabbit holes seeking answers and truth so here we go again.

It is now almost two years since David Falk’s “retirement” in July 2015, and much has changed.

So what public profile is now available about TCF if I come looking for information and know little about what sort of church this group presents itself as?

Starting with Falk’s love of self promotion on each of the TCF website, YouTube, and Facebook I did a quick check of these sources of “information” and the difference is very obvious. Quite rapidly after Falk’s exit from centre stage, it was reported by several on Streetcar, including myself, that any trace of him was obliterated from any of these. The TCF website is now the standard CF website which gives plenty of spiel but little information, and gives no indication of who is in the pastoral/minister role at Toowoomba. Gone are the video clips of Falk and his young scions Baker, Perrin and Smith (and an occasional Vic Hall for good measure); gone is the ongoing Falk blog; gone is the promotion of all things RFI and especially the literature of Vision One/Restoration Publishing. In effect the TCF website is now a clone of the BCF website in content and format; lots of spiel but no real information.

YouTube is very much the same; no sign of Falk whatsoever, and the remaining video clips are 4 to 8 years old featuring mainly David Baker, Luke Perrin and Nathan Smith (and occasionally their wives singing). This is also the case on the BCF website in relation to the YouTube video clips --- nothing younger than 4 years old, and ironically most of those posts including those of Vic Hall, are reposted from the Toowoomba CF YouTube site.

Facebook is another indicator of change. The previous TCF Facebook page was readily accessible on line, and was very similar to the Church website with Falk as the centrepiece of all things TCF. The site was characterised by the cheerleaders who posted “Likes” being the same group of young people who had gone through the Youth programme ---- never a “like” from a non-TCF person. Now, you can’t even get onto the TCF Facebook page unless you sign up to Facebook. I used to be on Facey, but discovered two years ago that Facebook had sold off my FB contact list without my permission, so I cut my account immediately. If any Streetcar readers are also on Facebook you need to know that FB treats your contact list as commercial property which it can sell off to the highest bidder, which certainly in America includes the Intelligence agencies. On the other hand the BCF Facebook page is readily accessible and now looks more like what the TCF one did ---- including the questionable “likes” by planted cheerleaders.

This is not to say that Vic has been successful in obliterating Falk from RFI history, even though Jonathan Hall has clearly done a hatchet job on the public profile of all things TCF. If you ask Mr. Google about Falk there is still a lot there, which will continue to cause Vic embarrassment and keep the curious at TCF asking “Why did Vic “retire” David Falk?..... especially when he was sick?” I will return to that very important question a little later.

A significant factor I couldn’t discern from this “public” information was “Who is the pastor/minister at TCF?” I’m guessing that it is David Baker, especially because of his close association to Vic Hall and all published Restoration Publishing material, including “Restoring My Soul”. It may yet be Lachlan Perrin, as he is currently listed on the TCF Management Committee as Vice President, and he has all the characteristics of one of Vic’s “up and coming Wise Guys”, and is one of Vic’s ‘writing partners’ on Restoration Publishing books since Wylie and then Falk dropped out of that list.

What is clear from the public records of TCF business which everyone can access on the Australian Charities and Not-for-Profit (ACNC) website {Go to: --- ACNC: Search the Register, at .... http://www.acnc.gov.au/ACNC/FindCharity ... 3597112640 and type in Toowoomba Christian Fellowship Inc as the Name} that there has been a significant change in the Management Committee of TCF. That Management Committee is now: ---
Name
Position
BAKER, DAVID
Treasurer
BIRD, TOM
Committee member
FLYNN, ROB
Committee member
HAY, ANDREW
President
HAY, DON
Committee member
HAY, JOSHUA
Committee member
LONSDALE, BARRY
Committee member
NEVILLE, JOHN
Committee member
PERRIN, LACHLAN
Vice president
RIGDEN, GLYNN
Committee member
SMITH, NATHAN
Secretary
SWEET, HOWARD
Committee member
WATKINS, BRUCE
Committee member

Bear in mind that this 13 person management committee is set up identically to every other CF management Committee around Australia, so that at least 7 of the members represent Vic Hall and RFI, and the remainder represent the local CF. On this Committee you can bet your concordance that the President, Andrew Hay, the Vice President, Lachlan Perrin, the Treasurer, David Baker, and the Secretary, Nathan Smith are all Vic’s men. Who the other three are I’m not sure, but readers from TCF I’m sure can work that out, especially if those people are not TCF people. Additionally having three members of the Hay family on the same committee represents a voting bloc which will always follow Andrew Hay’s lead, another factor which “stacks” the Committee in Vic’s and RFI’s favour. Bearing in mind that this committee also has to represent the two satellite TCF churches at Kingaroy and Warwick, which also weakens the voice of the congregation actually at Toowoomba.

What is very significant about this Management Committee is the appointment of Andrew Hay from one of the satellites at Warwick, rather than someone from Toowoomba. Andrew Hay has been an elder since 1991, and is very clearly “Vic’s man” and has been put there by Vic, regardless of what the Toowoomba people may want or think. He has the reputation of being a ‘hatchet man’ and was Vic’s prime agent in absorbing the very successful Stanthorpe CF, under Stephen Hall, into the Warwick CF. His treatment of Stephen Hall in that process was a significant factor in Stephen’s breakdown, coincident with the disappearance of Stanthorpe CF. Andrew was the ideal hatchet man to cut Stephen down to size after Stephen had set up the structure of the business of Restoration Fellowships International (Australia) by 2002, breaking free from the Associated Mission Churches Australasia (AMCA). This was Vic’s way of destroying the last traces of Immanuel and Ray J. Jackson, who had set up AMCA, and asserting that Vic was in charge and that the source and seat of power had shifted from Melbourne to Brisbane. This has rankled MCF ever since. I suggest that there is little likelihood of Toowoomba becoming the independent entity which Falk would have had everyone at TCF believing, as Andrew Hay will always ensure for Vic that TCF jumps to Vic’s tune.

It may be that with Andrew Hay as President of TCF and Lachlan Perrin as vice-President, that Lachlan is under tutelage to ensure that he is ‘Vic’s man’ in Toowoomba, rather than “one of our own” as the remaining congregation will want to think, as Lachlan has grown up there.

Although Nathan Smith remains as Secretary on the Management Committee, recent reliable information from Queensland has told me that Nathan and Penny Smith are to be moved to Brisbane, as the falling congregation numbers and low state of finances at TCF have seriously changed who can be supported on the tithe. Nathan and Penny have suffered severely from what happened in July 2015. David Baker replacing Penny Smith as Treasurer removes the nepotism of the Falk family from the control of the books. This Falk family nepotism could well have got TCF into real trouble with the ATO and the ACNC if the financial impropriety Falk was alleged to have committed, and used to justify his “retirement”, was ever investigated. If that was what did happen it was necessary that Vic Hall as CEO of Restoration Fellowships International (Australia), the overarching body of the CFs, had to report it to both the ACNC and the ATO. If this wasn’t done then the ACNC could withdraw RFI and TCF’s standing as registered organisation deemed to be a charitable, not-for profit organisation and tax exempt concessions, and their standing as registered businesses would be in question. Financial impropriety or fraud is a breach of Federal Law and open to investigation by the ATO. If those two entities were penalised it would set off a domino effect of collapse of every CF as a registered business enjoying the ATO and ACNC privileges.

This raises the question “Exactly what financial impropriety was David Falk alleged to have committed to justify his “retirement”?” So far nothing specific has leaked out, but there were plenty of possible factors as indicators, such as: ---
a. How was David Falk able to get a variously reported accumulated salary in the order of $750,000.00 per year, when all the additional exempt benefits are taken into account? Hardly enough when he consistently bragged about how much more his net worth would be if he were a CEO in the private sector.
b. How was he able to purchase and finance his 40 acre property adjacent to the TCF property and expand the mansion Tara on it, as well as use church labour and industry connections of members to undertake those extensive alterations and improvements to Tara?... (Not forgetting the large wine cellar at Tara and high expense multiple ski trips and overseas holidays for him and the Falk entourage)
c. How was he able to run “the cattle on a thousand hills” beef enterprise on bush properties North of TCF?.... as well as his Pawling Labrador Breeding enterprise (in his own name and for his own profit, perhaps?) and also using church assets and voluntary church labour in the process of both.
d. What does he now live on? It’s hard to imagine him reporting to Centrelink for unemployment benefits, unless perhaps he is hiring himself out as an electrician again? You’d have to wonder about his competence at his trade after many years of not doing it. It could indicate that he salted away a lot of revenue gained in the employ of TCF/RFI, but how legitimately when his daughter ran the books? --- and what training did she have to do so?
e. What level of indebtedness does he have to members of the TCF congregation who made him loans, ostensibly to build the TCF worship centre? Many of those who loaned have gone into considerable debt giving away inheritances and risking mortgages on their homes and businesses, which was foreshadowed in the way Falk acted in relation to offloading Café Forte onto the church members who set up the Veraison, only for them to lose everything when that failed in 2015.
e. There is another possibility, not directly linked to TCF itself, and which has only surfaced through some of the revelations about the RFI activities in South East Asia which we would not have heard of if Thanomere had not come to Streetcar. In the two years before Falk was dismissed there were several comments from Streetcar members which suggested that Falk was getting bored with things at TCF and was thinking of going overseas, but not for holidays. It was in this time frame that he started getting very much involved in overseas trips to Malaysia and Singapore. While there he was heavily promoting Restoration Publishing and it was around this time that the small Singapore CF made a $70,000 donation to BCF, possibly to support the surge of activity to build the new Centre in Nonga at Rabaul. Word filtered back to Vic that Falk was developing his “own messenger version” of what was coming from Brisbane, and appeared to be gathering the South East Asian CFs under his wing as their AGGELOS Messenger. If this was accurate reporting then Falk was usurping Vic’s role as the AGGELOS messenger of all the RFI churches, especially those outside Australia. With Murray Wylie’s demise Falk was clearly seeing himself as the #2 man, and Vic’s likely successor, but his level of presumption was most likely a reflection of his hubris and narcissistic tendencies, rather than something that fitted with Vic’s thinking about the future, especially after his death. So perhaps with these vain flights of fancy, especially when the word got back to Vic, Falk was placing his neck in Vic’s noose. I recently heard through a reliable source in BCF that Vic had indicated two years before July 2015 that he was planning to replace Falk at TCF. A scenario worthy of a James Bond or Le Carrè novel, and who can really know? As always with Vic and all things RFI, look below the surface, especially if money or power is involved. The other fiendish twist to the drama was that when DGF had his heart attack in July Vic was very solicitous that he rest and recover, but very shortly after Falk “retired” without warning, and the books at Toowoomba had been secured..... the rest is history!

There is clearly some level of financial disruption in whatever happened at TCF when Falk was dismissed as the 2016 Financial Statement of 30/6/16 shows that TCF ended the financial Year with a deficit of $1,113,225.00, compared with a deficit of $108,900.00 for the 2015 Financial year --- two significant deficits in a row which cover the time of Falk’s dismissal. You can check this for yourself from the ACNC website given earlier in this post. What makes this even more curious is that when you crosscheck The Brisbane Christian Fellowship ACNC Statement (see: --- https://www.acnc.gov.au/RN52B75Q?ID=01F ... 9&noleft=1 ) and then check the BCF 2016 Financial Statement, you will see that in the 2016 financial year BCF had a loan to TCF of $485,436.60 and in the 2015 financial year had also made a loan of $63,936.60 to TCF. Despite these loans propping up TCF, it still made substantial deficits in both the 2015 and 2016 financial years. How did this happen? Not hard to suspect financial impropriety with those figures, or who might be involved!! In normal business enterprises this is when the forensic accountants start thoroughly examining the books. Whether TCF as a “business enterprise” could ever be considered “normal”, especially as it is supposed to be a Church and under the control of David Garth Falk, is a highly debatable point!!!! If the Annual General meeting of TCF runs true to the CF–wide practice of such meetings, then it is most unlikely that many of the ordinary congregation members of TCF had any idea of this sort of financial jiggery-pokery. Those AGMs are by invitation only, and limited to elders or those members of the congregation who can be trusted to keep their mouths shut.

The uncertainty represented in the list above when existing in the minds of the congregation members has undermined the faith of the congregation as they continue to be “treated like mushrooms”. For many in the congregation there is the distinct stench of cover-up and bad faith. With Andrew Hay in charge that stench will continue, as any attempt to broach the subject, including the repayment of loans made by members of the congregation is shut down with high level coercion. Any attempt by anyone game enough to clarify any of this with Vic and BCF has been met the same way with either “Don’t ask! Don’t tell!!” or “Move on! Nothing to see here!!!” That change in those in charge at TCF, reflecting that Vic Hall now controls TCF, also hangs heavy in the air of The Chapel

It’s hardly surprising that there is a heavy spirit of disillusionment and pain in the congregation, while those in charge carry on as if all is rosy. My most recent information suggests that as many as 12 families (about 45 people) have left since Falk’s dismissal, and that numbers which were once as high as 250 are now about 80-90 (including Children). Given the grandiose extension of the church building the congregation must be rattling around like dried peas in a tobacco tin, especially when you take out the numbers on stage supporting the “performance”.

Clearly the members of the congregation deserve our support, and the heavy weight of spiritual responsibility hangs around the necks of those in charge. For those who have left it has been no easy process; for those remaining I’d suggest that feelings of betrayal, disappointment and sadness are haunting them. Given the current teaching being fed through “Restoring My Soul” there will be little to bring the balm of Gilead to the congregation ---- instead they will have to swallow the line that they are “participating in the sufferings of Christ”. These sufferings have been wrought on them by those who claim to be Christ’s messengers. With messengers like that, who needs adversaries?

Hopefully those TCF members reading this will know that their situation is understood and that they are cared about by those on Streetcar --- not only caring for but ready to support if the situation becomes more than they can live with.

I am wide open to any feedback on this post, which is as good as I could cobble together from what sources I have, especially if more accurate information can correct my mistakes.

Seeking truth.

BR

robocop
Posts: 47
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Re: So what’s the situation at Toowoomba Christian Fellowship? ----

Post by robocop » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:02 pm

Who the other three are I’m not sure.
NEVILLE, JOHN
Committee member - Previously part of Stanthorpe Fellowship

RIGDEN, GLYNN
Committee member - Previously part of Stanthorpe Fellowship - Ex BCF - Son of Gordon Rigden

BIRD, TOM
Committee member - TCF - Son of Neville & Kaye Bird

SWEET, HOWARD
Committee member - Previous Elder at Stanthorpe

WATKINS, BRUCE
Committee member - Previous Elder from Bell Fellowship - Ex BCF

Boundary Rider
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 5:32 pm
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Re: So what’s the situation at Toowoomba Christian Fellowship? ----

Post by Boundary Rider » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:14 am

Thanks for this Robocop .... certainly helps to see how the TCF Management Committee is dominated by BCF/RFI (i.e. Vic Hall)

I'm wondering what has happened to the Restoration Publishing set up at Toowoomba. Is it still operating? "Restoring my Soul" has become boringly repetitive, and looks like it is on a constant Cut and Paste cycle.

The publication output of new products has shrunk, and those recently published are nothing new, just more of the same old same old.
(See:--- http://www.christianresources.co/ )

Any news?

eagles
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 8:18 pm
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Re: So what’s the situation at Toowoomba Christian Fellowship? ----

Post by eagles » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:15 pm

Interesting discovery...

christianresources.co - which is actually a UK registration by definition...

http://geektools.com/whois.php tells us about this site - go and check out all the details by visiting it, not all are here...

Enter Code: [ Different Image ]
Whois: christianresources.co


Checking server [whois.nic.co]
Results:

Domain Name: CHRISTIANRESOURCES.CO
Domain ID: D3523267-CO
Sponsoring Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 146
Registrar URL (registration services): www.godaddy.com
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Registrant ID: CR69501338
Registrant Name: Dan Proud
Registrant Organization: Vision One
Registrant Address1: 10 Old Goombungee Rd
Registrant City: Toowoomba
Registrant State/Province: Queensland
Registrant Postal Code: 4350
Registrant Country: Australia
Registrant Country Code: AU
Registrant Phone Number: +61.746986600
Registrant Email: admin@visionone.org.au
Administrative Contact ID: CR69501340
Administrative Contact Name: Dan Proud
Administrative Contact Organization: Vision One
Administrative Contact Address1: 10 Old Goombungee Rd
Administrative Contact City: Toowoomba
Administrative Contact State/Province: Queensland
Administrative Contact Postal Code: 4350
Administrative Contact Country: Australia
Administrative Contact Country Code: AU
Administrative Contact Phone Number: +61.746986600
Administrative Contact Email: admin@visionone.org.au
Billing Contact ID: CR69501341
Billing Contact Name: Dan Proud
Billing Contact Organization: Vision One
Billing Contact Address1: 10 Old Goombungee Rd
Billing Contact City: Toowoomba
Billing Contact State/Province: Queensland
Billing Contact Postal Code: 4350
Billing Contact Country: Australia
Billing Contact Country Code: AU
Billing Contact Phone Number: +61.746986600
Billing Contact Email: admin@visionone.org.au
Technical Contact ID: CR69501339
Technical Contact Name: Dan Proud
Technical Contact Organization: Vision One
Technical Contact Address1: 10 Old Goombungee Rd
Technical Contact City: Toowoomba
Technical Contact State/Province: Queensland
Technical Contact Postal Code: 4350
Technical Contact Country: Australia
Technical Contact Country Code: AU
Technical Contact Phone Number: +61.746986600
Technical Contact Email: admin@visionone.org.au

So, checking the email server address as a website, we read:

Your connection is not secure
The owner of www.visionone.org.au has configured their website improperly.
To protect your information from being stolen, Firefox has not connected to this website.



Now, the last time I looked (six months ago perhaps) it was NOT misconfigured. This has to be a recent change…

Maybe some of the streetcar folk who use Internet Exploder as a browser (I don't) might like to report that address as "unsafe" on the authority of that genuine report... and with a bit of luck Microsoft might log them as being a danger?

Perhaps that might be poetic justice, folks?


Incidentally, the DNS (Domain Name Service) links show a suspect provider of DNS (in my eyes) http://ww1.madeeasy.com

Leave it with you folks,

eagles

Boundary Rider
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Re: So what’s the situation at Toowoomba Christian Fellowship? ----

Post by Boundary Rider » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:24 am

When I originally posted "So what’s the situation at Toowoomba Christian Fellowship? " ---- In June of 2017 I raised many unanswered questions relating to David Falk’s income and assets which might attract some curiosity from both the Australian Tax Office (ATO) and the Australian Charities and Not-for-Profit Commission. Those questions have hung in the air ever since.

Recently a contact of mine happened to be travelling through the TCF area, and out of a mixture of concern and curiosity called in on David Garth Falk to see how he was getting on. A brave move, considering that Falk is under Vic’s shunning decree, but my contact does have genuine compassion even for Falk, let alone any other CF members who have been declared ‘persona no grata’, and only fit for shunning.

The visitor only got as far as the front yard to be addressed from the balcony with a curt “Waddayou want?” The visit didn’t last long but it did appear that DGF was living on his dog-breeding business. So the visitor’s concern and willingness to be compassionate was met with contempt, and Falk showed very clearly that like bullies everywhere, when it comes to the shunning he was so good at applying, he could dish it out, but couldn’t take it on the receiving end.

That “living on his dog-breeding business” is a credibility stretch at best, and goes back to my earlier concerns about how much he had salted away out of the funds of TCF/RFI and Vision One before the axe fell from Samford. This also highlighted the dubious nepotistic nature of the book-keeping at TCF, being in the hands of his daughter Penny Smith. This strongly suggested that DGF was rorting the ‘exempt benefit” status of various salary related items to be pulling in what had been reported as high as $750,000 by the bragging of Falk himself before the fall in 2015.

At least the TCF finances are now in David Baker’s hands as one trained in Accountancy, but David B must have gone through Hell, at Vic’s request, to investigate the finances of TCF leading to Falk’s 2015 dismissal..... NOT RETIREMENT. That would have been even harder on David B as Vic’s protégé from 18 after leaving school. Vic sure knows how to really turn the screws on people by putting David B through that.

However, recent information has come to hand that suggests that Falk’s Labrador breeding business is not at all the real story. Falk’s property at Pechey was bought in 2000 for $81K and sold late last year for $430K, which when I went to school meant a profit of $349K. A nice little retirement nest egg of 4.5% p.a. growth over 18 years!!! I’m sure many who sold out their own superannuation(s) to the great schemes of Falk would love to know what he is up to!!! Especially now that he has cashed in on their “offerings” with no return to them, except financial ruin. (See:---https://www.domain.com.au/property-prof ... e-qld-4352 )

Given that this was not his principal residence then I’d hope capital gains tax was relevant to someone who, since his dismissal mid 2015, can now no longer can call himself a ‘Minister of Religion’. On the matter of tax I’d also heard that he was not good at maintaining up to date personal returns to the ATO. This would be even more likely because of the nepotism involved with having his daughter in the role of Treasurer with only a background in book-keeping, not Accountancy. Further I would be fairly certain the property had improvements (e.g. small shanty/removable house for unsuspecting cattle slaves to ‘live’ in, dams, fences, small sheds, grain milling, and storage for the cattle on a thousand hills during periods of Falk's cattle buying frenzies (followed promptly by starvation and cruelty), cattle yards, tanks, water infrastructure of poly pipes, cattle water troughs, camp facilities, even a well-built rope swing and flying fox etc etc) that would have been funded using church funds, again out of “offerings”. I do trust that these ‘capital acquisitions’ would have existed on an asset/depreciation schedule on the TCF books somewhere behind the smoke and mirrors, but then as Boundary Rider in the guise of Don Quixote I’m known for “dreaming impossible dreams”!! I wonder what the ATO and ACNC would make of this as he has crossed both of them in this regard.

With the advent of the public accountability of Charitable Not-for-profit organisations, including Churches, anyone can look up the financial details of any of the CFs on the ACNC website, which was all but impossible due to the shonky AGM processes used in imitation of BCF/RFI by each of the CFs round Australia. Here are: ---
1. The Toowoomba Christian Fellowship ACNC website --- https://www.acnc.gov.au/charity/c558a52 ... 2e7aaee5ec
2. The ACNC Register website so that you can look up any entity which is part of the BCF/RFI network, including Restoration Fellowships International itself, using the “Search for a Charity” link --- https://www.acnc.gov.au/

Some points to consider for the ACNC, extracted from the ACNC reporting for TCF: ---
• For the 5-year period 2014/15/16/17/18, the income trend covering Falk’s rise and fall shows $1.8M/$2M/$1.6M/$960K/$850K
• Tithe wages for that same periods for 3-4 ministry families (Falk/Baker/Smith/Perrin) show as $150K/$150/$200K/$210K/$160K. Bear in mind that this is base salary of between $40K---$50K per family, which then approximately doubles through the provision of cars, fuel, travel costs, housing and housing loans, superannuation offset etc as ancillary benefits which under normal tax requirements are considered as taxable income
• The EXEMPT Benefit figures (Falk’s slush fund for house renovations, overseas and other holidays, the wine cellars) for that same period are ...... $498K/$718K/$798K/$254K/$200K
• The likely conclusion which can be drawn for this pattern related to Falk’s rise and fall is that Falk could well have been paying himself with all the loans and offerings of the good folk at TCF to give himself that $700—800K salary he was so willing to brag about. I have a strong hunch that both the ATO and ACNC would see this use of the Exempt benefits as FRAUD and Tax evasion.
• So the likely conclusion seems to be: --- Quick analysis would suggest that Falk could well have been paying himself with all the loans and offerings of the TCF good folks in the order of 700-800k p.a. during the peak of his folly. This assumes the other 3 families were on $50k wages and $50k exempt benefit p.a. (i.e. 100k p.a. package) which would ring true with informed information about the remuneration system of the ‘fulltimers on the tithe’ such as Baker, Perrin and Smith families

So, taken overall, Falk appears to be very vulnerable to investigation by both the ATO and the ACNC. Added to this, when Falk was dismissed, his dismissal was tied to a non-disclosure/Deed of Settlement agreement which we can only guess at. Non-disclosure agreements can easily act as a double-edged sword, as President Trump is discovering after years of using them to buy other people’s silence for his wrong doings. In Falk’s case, my guess is that the non-disclosure agreement is meant to cover up whatever Falk did financially at TCF and acts as a form of Vic Hall blackmail. However, if Falk chose to do what Graeme Harry did when Vic cut him off at the knees and kept all the loot which Graeme had brought into the coffers of BCF/RFI, and take Vic to court for financial loss, then the sword would cut back against Vic. This would expose to scrutiny the entire structure of the financial empire Vic has built up both in Australia and in overseas banks and would be at risk of exposure. Then the ATO and ACNC would have cause to use their microscopes on Vic, BCF, and RFI. Quelle domage! By agreeing to an out of court settlement in the Graeme Harry case Vic used a court ordered non-disclosure process, but I would be surprised if Vic’s use of it to silence Falk has any legal weight, particularly if Falk chooses to challenge it. With his new found wealth he might just be narcissistic enough to try it!

When I posted the earlier analysis of what is happening at TCF I demonstrated how the 2017 Management Committee at TCF was now firmly under Vic’s control with his representatives always outvoting the ordinary members of the congregation (if they were fortunate enough to ever get on the Management Committee). That situation is now even more so if you look at the most recent description of the TC Management Committee: ---

Management Committee at March 2019 (from ACNC Register)
• Andrew Hay ---- President VH
• Lachlan Perrin ---- Vice-President VH
• Nathan Smith ---- Secretary VH…. He and his wife have moved to Brisbane
• David Baker ---- Treasurer VH
• Anthony Gray ---- Committee Member VH
• Barry Lonsdale ---- Committee Member VH
• Bruce Watkins ---- Committee Member VH
• Don Hay ---- Committee Member VH
• Glynn Rigden ---- Committee Member
• Howard Sweet ---- Committee Member VH
• John Neville ---- Committee Member
• Joshua Hay ---- Committee Member VH
• Luke Pomery ---- Committee Member… a Vice-President of BCF, definitely VH
• Michael Hall ---- Committee Member VH
• Rob Flynn ---- Committee Member VH?
• Ross Wills ---- Committee Member VH
• Tom Bird ---- Committee Member ……… 17 members, although officially the Committee number is still 13
This may reflect that the committee is in flux so that the four extra members --- Gray, Pomery, Hall and Wills can be dropped in to cover movements (e.g. Howard Sweet acting for Andrew Hay, when the more usual process is for the V-P to act for the President; bear in mind that Howard has a close association with Vic as one of his overseas travelling buddies). The “VH” against a name means that the person is definitely aligned with Vic Hall, not TCF i.e.at least 13/17 owing allegiance to Vic Hall/BCF/RFI. Vic certainly likes to play with a stacked deck! If this was politics or any form of Union or Association it would be automatically open to accusation of Branch Stacking! What is even more significant is that many of those VH affiliated names are also on the Management Committee of Brisbane Christian Fellowship ... see:--- https://www.acnc.gov.au/charity/4822689 ... 84fa64cdb1

So that’s what the picture from within the dark kingdom of BCF/RFI operating at Toowoomba seems to be in March 2019.

I’m wide open to correction on detail, as the current operation of the whole CF network is operating like a Black Hole ---- very quick to suck in the unwary space travellers, but letting nothing out without great injury, if at all.

BR

surprisedbyjoy
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Re: So what’s the situation at Toowoomba Christian Fellowship? ----

Post by surprisedbyjoy » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:27 pm

Boundary Rider and Streetcar folks,

I’ll attempt to find a bit more light to shine into that dark black hole for weary and wary space travellers. Firstly a disclaimer to any good TCF folks and old friends/family reading this from inside that black hole (if you have any glimmer of light to see there). I know first hand how much the following may insult you. I am sorry if you feel insulted by this but I am not sorry for speaking the truth!! You hopefully draw some empathy with and from the Catholic experience.

As a TCF survivor of some 25years who left during the time of David Falk’s mysterious disappearance I’d like to add to BR’s comments as factually, sincerely and as genuinely as I could. I see Paul K mentioned some time ago that the Melbourne folks were intrigued at David’s disappearance since he was esteemed during his Apostolic travels there. So, depending on the numbers here I’ll write this and perhaps if only for Paul’s benefit.
Given these are very serious matters, I am resisting the distractions of both satire (often used by TCF survivors to momentarily ease the pain) and accusation (something CF leaders might suggest we are participating in to put us off a search for the truth and the wellbeing of all). Please forgive me if I err either of those ways. I sincerely and genuinely believe that we are encouraged as fellow humans to a search for the values of truth that set us free from certain bondages. This value/life narrative is presented in many wise and canonical books including the bible and something we all know and value experientially in life. Coupled with both accountable restitution and forgiveness my experience has been that we can make things ‘better’ or possibly even ‘well’ again if we would simply try! So why all the secrets in TCF?

Following the recent events of Pell/Catholic Church in the media I am stirred again for a search for the truth. I am troubled by the human frailty in me that resists all of the pain that goes with exposing abuse. I’ll try and find courage as best I can and so here I go.
As a TCF survivor with many whom I consider friends still there (whom I will and do forgive for the shunning, but not accept it as an action) I am stirred to courage and presentation of the truth again. I briefly read again the comments on Mark Connors blog from 2008 following the ABC 4C exposure of Immanuel/BCF and am reminded again, HOW DO WE ALLOW THE TRUTH TO SET US FREE?? These are deep waters good folks but we should have the confidence to chart them despite the inaction of those supposedly claiming that responsibility. How do victims and survivors find recovery? How do bullies and abusers get their just deserts and possibly even find recovery from such a miserable state themselves?

SO….THE FACTS

The David Falk Collapse

1. David Falk was the Senior Minister, Pastor and CEO of the Toowoomba Christian Fellowship church congregation. David Falk was sent from Brisbane Christian Fellowship as the senior man to replace John Simmons there around circa 1995??? John seemed to mysteriously disappear from the TCF fellowship during that time (also with little explanation or ‘farewell’). David had a very certain style of leadership and ministry. The culture of TCF under David was quite unique. David Falk was highly esteemed by a majority and highly questioned by a minority. Some bravely crossed the floor from loyalty/esteem to criticism/questioning. They paid the obvious price. David’s activities of land acquisition and sales, a large cattle enterprise, a dog breeding business, multiple excessive house renovations and extensions and expensive overseas holidays with a close family/friend entourage were, to say the least, very questionable. But very few did in fact dare question! Those who did most certainly fell from grace and esteem in TCF.

2. David Falk suffered the health effects of appendicitis and a heart attack in close succession in circa July 2015 and was never to set foot in the door of TCF again.

3. From circa July to September 2015 the TCF congregation shared feelings ranging from prayerful concern and care through to conspiracy, accusation and even hatred. The junior ministers of TCF (David Baker, Lachlan Perrin and Nathan Smith – Perrin and Smith married to Falk’s daughters) seemed to be reeling under a heaviness and conspiracy of the events of David Falks health crisis. They had looked troubled for years prior to be honest.

4. Elders and leaders from Brisbane headquarters and the Stanthorpe/Warwick fellowships nearby all of a sudden found the Dutch courage to descend (or ascend) upon TCF. Despite the fact that Warwick/Stanthorpe Nobles previously preferred the safer ground of staying away from TCF and never really felt safe to send their kids to the Toowoomba University (the closest to Warwick but not safe territory under Falk), they now were swarming the place with wisdom, advice and Dutch courage. These Nobles rallied around the TCF congregation under the banner of care and support. However, during this time an air of conspiracy around David Falk’s health collapse developed at TCF. The so-say support of the broader XCF leaders and elders visiting TCF turned very quickly into an attitude of secrecy, conspiracy and preservation of the CF organisation and hierarchy (not unlike the Catholic Church). Very telling at the time and again now we are reminded of this classic style of behaviour concerning George Pell and the Catholic Church.

5. Around circa Sept 2015 a letter of David Falks resignation was read on Sunday morning to the TCF congregation by visiting Warwick minister Andrew Hay. David was not present. Andrew Hay seemed to take this courageous role since he was the replacement Chairman of TCF Inc (Toowoomba Christian Fellowship’s legal entity and David’s employer). This was a very ‘clynical’ presentation from Mr Hay! Not a lot of feeling or emotion from Andrew for his old Chapel Hill/St Lucia long-lost running buddy. Suggestion was made by David in that letter that he had a desire to be among us again following his health recovery. However, word on the ground from Stanthorpe and Brisbane leaders was that it was going to be a big bow to stretch to ever see David Falk back among us. Likewise, David has not since demonstrated that intent and desire to return, communicated in his letter of resignation to his faithful followers. Further, Victor Hall was apparently quoted as saying that David would be like other offenders who had to find their way back into the fold. ‘They would have to pay the last farthing’. Quite a statement of his once blue-eyed boy. The implications were that David Falk had done something wrong! The unsuspecting may not have noticed the other more subtle inherent assertion from Vic, that he had therefore done no wrong! Very telling!!

6. Word got around that David’s daughters were not to see their father and mother. It was not clear who made this decision, the young ladies, their husbands or the CF hierarchy. In any case this fact was telling. The tragic implication was that a family was torn apart and that grandchildren would not see grandparents etc etc. Very troubling and tragic!

7. During the July to Sept 2015 period it became very obvious that the Brisbane, Warwick and Stanthorpe external leaders were now all of a sudden interested in what others close to David Falk over the previous 20 years of David Falk in Toowoomba might know about his affairs. Quite intriguing to many who had cried out for help to friends and colleagues in Brisbane, Warwick and Stanthorpe from the black hole of Toowoomba during that same 20 years. However, those close to him over 20 years were obviously reasonable in number and had some ‘intel’’. The Brisbane and Stanthorpe leaders appeared supportive at first but then when truths were presented by TCF congregants and previous local colleagues of David Falk, the attitude turned very quickly from fact finding and support to complete SHUTDOWN. All of a sudden, the Nobles looked very much more like the three wise monkeys Mizaru, Kikazaru and Iwazaru, see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil. COMPLETE RELATIONAL SHUTDOWN, like an edict had been passed from the Burton Lane Headquarters, “hands off you Warwick/Stanthorpe amateurs”. When questions and explanations were asked by congregants of the Presbytery/Leaders what this was all about, things suddenly turned. It most certainly did not feel like the CF Messengers were encouraging the actions of ‘walking in the light’ and ‘finding fellowship’. It suddenly became very DARK indeed. It was suggested by the Brisbane/Stanthorpe types to those who had a reputation for attempting to stand up to and question David that they contributed to the ‘monster’ by their support and esteem of David. This was from leading men in the CF hierarchy who rarely set foot in TCF until this crisis and new found Dutch courage of David’s absence presented. But now all of a sudden these Nobles had the running on how to deal with it. Yes, with large broom and rug!!

8. During this time (and to this day I believe) Victor Hall, the most senior man and mentor to David Falk has never set foot inside the TCF building to contribute to the care, support or de-briefing of the TCF congregation over David’s approach or mysterious resignation. Victor was quoted as saying ‘I’m not going up there to be the very guru that David Falk was to those people’. Victor was essentially David’s mentor and line manager (putting it in non-ministry terms), yet it appeared that he readily wiped his hands of both David and David’s victims. Very telling! Perhaps Victor had a health condition (not unlike Cardinal Pells) that forbad his travel to his favourite place up on the hill.

9. Following on in 2015 and 2016, many families (circa ten family units, maybe more) left under the lack of relational courage, care and transparency of the CF hierarchy. Some had simply had enough of being treated by David’s CF ex-colleagues the same way they were treated by David. Others just simply could not believe or cope with explanations and reasoning around it all. This Exodus (added to previous ones in 2007-2010) meant that a congregation of circa 300 was likely down around 80. The TCF dream and vision of happy families, large congregation, magnificent building and Mega-Church (and associated Mega-Manse) had rapidly faded. In some respects, Thank God!!


Since David Falk’s Mysterious Departure

I’ve had a look at your suggested links Boundary Rider, and they appear spot on as evidence of David’s activities since his departure from TCF. Good on him for having a go at some of his old hobbies (while a TCF minister), now as a fledgling businessman. David’s track record in business activities during his well funded and resourced attempts while at TCF does gives solid support to your theories that something other than these new business ventures are now supporting he and Sue. I do hope his current activities were not seed funded (including establishing equipment and infrastructure) by his previous affairs using the offerings of TCF good folks. Likewise I do hope his new-found silence and persona non grata status are not the result of the non-disclosure Trumpian style approach you likewise suggest. That would also be very telling. Again, a good thing would be to investigate to find the TRUTH.

I’ve re-posted the links you’d found and found some of my own also for my summary search for the TRUTH.

1. All of the financial facts you present including the strong theories for suggesting that fraud, financial misappropriation and tax fraud should be investigated by the ATO to prove or disprove and therefore establish the TRUTH. Yes, the income and exempt benefit trends would be quite telling to someone (including the ATO) who knows how to look at this forensically.
https://www.acnc.gov.au/charity/c558a52 ... -documents

2. It certainly appears that David Falk’s non-ministerial related property at Grapetree/Pechey north of Toowoomba was purchased in 2000 for $81,000 and sold for $430,000 in 2018. A tidy return! We could likewise have reason for concern that the capital value addition percentage to this originally unimproved block might need some investigation as to who funded that.
https://www.domain.com.au/property-prof ... -qld-4352

3. David Falk ran a cattle enterprise in the order of a peak 800 head across 8 or more properties (three were his, some the church, some agistment and some owned by the slaves). David Falk set up intensive feedlotting operations without Town Planning or State Government (DPI) consent and vey much upset the neighbours of these blocks (including those neighbouring the church land). A compelling argument for Christian outreach and ministry related activities I hear you say! (sorry satire…..ooops)

4. David Falk commenced a dog breeding business circa 2013 on his Highfields property. Obvious improvements were made during that time to that property to facilitate the business activity. Despite the fact that these dogs were Labradors it appeared that they were not provided for the pastoral care of the blind. No it appears they were bred for Profit, with a capital P. Your contact who visited would have noticed this since the activities are well advertised on the web. Some investigation as to the funding source required to set up this business may be of interest to the ATO. A cross comparison of TCF Inc financial figures and the Pawlings Labrador Breeding Business figures of Falk 63 Kieman Rd Highfields may provide some interesting forensics and TRUTH on income, expense, asset and balance sheet items.
https://www.pawlinglabs.com/

While you’re there, have a look through some of the Pawling Lab’s photos to find ‘his truly’ in his usual ministerial attire of black pants, cheap Singaporean shirt and yes THONGS. Compelling evidence indeed (sorry I said I would not use satire!)

5. A new discovery of the activities of 63 Kieman Rd Highfields.
https://www.plantsintoowoomba.com/contact-1

So…PLANTSINHIGHFIELDS or is that PLANTSINTOOWOOMBA. Sounds like the work of a search engine web page developer genius!! Further circumstantial type evidence of David’s mastery is that this site is an advertising and web page building amateur’s masterpiece, totally absent of the skill usually sourced from slave labour. And it looks like Dave's living room is the new pot plant factory!! Pure Falky!! Pure class!! (satire again sorry, time for this weary space traveller to wind up!!)

For anyone who wanted to muster the courage to either reach out to David (or even buy some quality plants perhaps ) the phone number is even there. Maybe consider striking a deal and using your slave credit to buy said quality plants from him. Perhaps even take the opportunity to head up for a ‘pastoral’ or wine tasting afternoon and find out exactly what he’s been up to and why he’s taken the persona of Elvis. Though I doubt the New Dave (once he knew your interests may not be pot plants like his) would receive your call to buy pot plants well as per the experience of your contact who graciously passed by to see if he was OK.


So, it appears our evidence is compelling Boundary Rider. The snapshot nearly 2 years on from your 2017 snapshot now seems to be running according to script. And how time flies! It's getting near on four years now since the David Falk we all thought we knew ‘left the building’. As you infer, God forbid that his demise was as the result of appendicitis and a heart attack. Such life events would surely have drawn a response of care and mercy in any 'normal' God fearing group of humans. I do regret that I too was one of those, but the persona non grata around David has made him a difficult person to reach out to (as your kind and courageous contact also experienced). In fact David himself has made himself a difficult person to reach out to and that is very sad. At the very least one would hope that those close and with the opportunity should still be trying.
Your logic seems to stand up BR. The only reasonable conclusion is that something very “sus” requited the heavy hands of DB and VH who examined the books. Something large! Something great! Something purely conspiratorial! Something warranting the serious discipline, of the solitary confinement and shunning variety. Something that required the clear statement of the hierarchy “do not touch” “do not enter”!!!!! “Please dumb folks let use deal with this with broom and rug!!” Something so very INHUMANE! How else could this summary chapter of 30 years of ministerial service ending in acute appendicitis and life threatening heart attack(s) be interpreted by a congregation of faithful followers. Such a work of Public Relations mastery! If our suspicions are correct though, then what a 'godless' and inhumane culture that seems to exist in the leadership of the CF bubble!

So some options in a quest for the TRUTH THAT SETS US FREE:
The Pell/Catholic example suggests strong reasoning for laity to stand up against these types of bullies, abuses and conspiracies. As a layman I personally feel that I’ve let myself and my fellow laity friends down. There's just pure and simply nothing special about these men, frail and dispensable just like us (and Falk, Wylie, Harry et al). And I'm fairly sure that God still loves us one and all! So some food for thought on a possible approach to find the truth good Streetcar Folks.

1. Request that Vic Hall and/or any courageous CF elders and leaders make a response via a correspondence with them. I’d say many have tried and failed, so why self-inflict and try again?
2. Expose the activities of CF leaders and hierarchy regularly in the media. Don’t collectivise them as a big bad boys club hierarchy, but rather particularise them as individual men who should stand up and give an account of their individual actions and show some individual accountability, not hide in the safe numbers of their own ‘boys club’, just like Catholic Paedophile Priests and their non-whistle-blowing buddies. This has both pro’s and con’s but it certainly does stir the good folks still in there to some critical thinking.
3. Encourage the authorities such as the ACNC and ATO to investigate the CF organisation and its officers. Some have mentioned that attempts at this have already been made to varying degrees of failure!
4. Commence legal proceedings if indeed there are valid cases. This would require a solid foundation of funds and evidence to allow it to fly.
5. Any other suggestions or societal tools available to the liberated good Streetcar folks?

Keep searching for the truth for victims both near and far good Streetcar folks.

Faith Hopegood
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Re: So what’s the situation at Toowoomba Christian Fellowship? ----

Post by Faith Hopegood » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:22 pm

Thanks Boundary Rider and SurprisedbyJoy for those very detailed updates. Any way you look at it, it is a sad sad situation for all involved. How many other former members of the CF are not allowed to see their grandchildren? Just terrible.

It is strange how history repeats itself again in the Christian Fellowship. How many of these sudden "resignation letters" have been read over the decades (of course the person resigning/got chopped is never there to have a little farewell gathering to say goodbye to all their friends and supporters - the fleeced flock).

I can't understand how a person can still attend the CF if they have seen so many of these faux ministers come and go under questionable circumstances over decades. Surely they must question things - or is it the prick of pride that says to a person who stays "the CF has a "special word" and I must be a part of it". The only thing they continue to be a part of is a Gnostic cult, a group of people who believe they have a special revelation of the word that no other part of christianity has - They are Special!

Can't people see that the Christian Fellowship is doing contrary to what the bible teaches? Vibrant churches send out people to missions with blessings and happiness per the bibles Great Commission. Does BCF carry out the biblical Great Commission? Does BCF send people out with blessings and love? No. But is does regularly sack ministers under a cloud of silence and conspiracy. Look at the fruit of the organisation - is it Godly fruit or poison sour fruit where controversy follows it all the days of its life? Is BCF an open organisation where the light can shine in all corners or is it an organisation that has a closed management group and closed management practices? Does it close ranks and cover stuff up?

Once must look at the master manipulator who sits at the centre of this web of deceit - Vic Hall. Vic is still pulling the strings like a puppet master. The preacher of false teachings, a man who tells outright lies and rejoices when one of his brother elders falls so that he can swoop in like a crow on a carcass and pick out the eyes. He is one who covers up years and decades of repeated abuse within his organisation. Vic Hall is a man who has known about abuses within his organisation for decades and has not acted. Ray Jackson Snr and Falk are but two examples.

One only has to look at the evidence of shrinking numbers as families abandon this poisonous organisation in droves. - Toowoomba was 300 now barely 80 - Maryborough, was 200 now less than 20 and only on every second weekend. Brisbane, formerly 1500 now who knows what. Centres closing and no expansion and Lord Vic, the Swamp Creature, sucking the life out of the congregation. Families busted and in ruins and a trail of human distruction everywhere.

Paul Kovaks
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Re: So what’s the situation at Toowoomba Christian Fellowship? ----

Post by Paul Kovaks » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:44 pm

Yes, thanks SBJ (is your username a CS Lewis ref?).

The only thing I can add to this David Falk business is:

1. How much our young men loved him in Melbourne. He was 'Falky' to them. He still was years after his demise! They all wanted to be like Falky.
2. How much I wanted to like him. But I smelled a rat early on. It was all too good to be true. And too stupid as well.
3. How OUTRAGEOUS and RIDICULOUS his claims were.

For the uninitiated 'Falky' preached a new level of imprisonment in law.
Following on from Vic's lunacy, we were to start analysing every Christian service in terms of the five Levitical offerings.
It meant we could be heaving or pouring librations or offering back, up or forward. Maybe even down. Who knows?
And the peace offerings? We could make three levels of peace offering vows from breakable to . . you can probably guess what. Might as well kill yourself now.

And it was all in hope that somehow, one day we could make God happy.
Just living and loving and caring and sharing the gospel wasn't good enough.
The youth of MCF gave up their Tuesday nights I think it was to do photocopying and other stuff.
No problem but you had to learn the culture of offering.

And what do you think the Falky/Vic-ish way of offering is?
To lose EVERYTHING of yourself in it.
NOthing of you could be in it.
You couldn't ask a question.
You couldn't close a door to stop the noise from the other room of your own volition.
Justine couldn't tell Steve Ando that there were no mics on the sopranos even though it was Kate Wylie who pointed it out!
Why? How dare you do that in front of Murray!
Did she get told off? Yes, of course. And who else? Me, the next day by phone call!

None of this is a surprise of course.

They removed ALL of me from me for 35 years.

They are BL##DY FR###ING A##E H###S, I'm afraid there is no polite word for it.
They ALLOWED themselves to be turned into BL##DY FR###ING A##E H###S.

Thanomere84
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Re: So what’s the situation at Toowoomba Christian Fellowship? ----

Post by Thanomere84 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:03 am

I agree so strongly with what you say, Paul.

To lose EVERYTHING of yourself? Not just everything, my fellow sufferer in the evils of Vic 'the Vicious Hall' Hall and his network of torture. It was to lose even your base identity and your own fundamental knowledge of your worth as a human being, a beloved creation of God. If you wanted their acceptance, the only way was to let them 'redefine' you in the gobbledegook of what they called 'fathering in the Word'. They would 'build you up' in 'your God-given identity' which could only be found via 'submission to the lampstand messenger', basically meaning this - SUBMIT TO US AND WHAT WE ORDER YOU TO DO... OR ELSE!!!

Worse still, all this was done, under their flagrant and vile claims that it was done 'for the lampstand church that Christ established'. Pah! For the glory of the evil head standing on the top of the pyramid is more like it, I would say! Vic 'the Vicious Hall' Hall is the one who masterminds all of this. And I can personally attest, for I heard it first hand, that whenever he chops people and wrecks their lives in his wicked, remorseless style... what does he say to excuse himself? He says it in a way so carefree, so casual that it's obvious there is not even the slightest twinge in his conscience... he says, 'That person needed discipline because he/she *insert any amount of grossly trumped-up, totally imaginary sins, crimes and transgressions here*, so we had to remove him/her from his/her ministry in the church.'

And quoting brother Paul's words from a much earlier post: in NONE of what BCF/RFI has done, do I see anything like the churches of Acts. If a church is truly walking towards the Biblical model, it should be displaying actions and work comparable to what was written in Acts. Where in Vic's domain can we see any of this?

surprisedbyjoy
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Re: So what’s the situation at Toowoomba Christian Fellowship? ----

Post by surprisedbyjoy » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:04 am

Paul,

Yes obviously a reference to one of CSL's works which I find some strong association with. But I understand he found the title from a William Wordsworth piece. Have a read and look at some of the commentaries.

https://interestingliterature.com/2018/ ... -the-wind/

I'm drawn to empathy in the poignancy of Wordsworth's short piece. I trust you are too! It evokes many things in me in this forum. A contrast between both pain and joy!! In most (all) ways a more difficult and painful pathway than the safe CF cultish bubble (when you submit to it at least) I was used to. But definitely a much better pathway I (we) most certainly now chose to walk away from CF. Very much a more real, genuine and integral pathway we have chosen, but yes the price paid and pains are real and even tragic in some cases.

The pain of loss is real Paul, some by natural causes (as Wordsworth portrays) and others by the abuse of men (the parallel I draw in this forum). I grieve for my loss and their loss collectively. I feel the same pain you and current CF members do Paul. Whether it be the loss of a loved one by natural causes (like Wordsworth) or the loss of life by the abusive bullying and shunning of evil men. Or as you say, the loss we feel in ourselves of having our God-given identity stripped away from us by a bunch of bullies. There's no positive spin that can be put on the cruelty and abuse of the CF way, despite the noble veils and disguises the hierarchies seem to invent.

One concept I have not yet found comfort in though Paul if you have any wisdom.....I don't know how to reconcile the concept of 'turn the other cheek' taught by Jesus when men of so-say high rank who are abusing innocent and faithful followers need to be exposed and stopped!

I appreciate hearing your open and honest accounts Paul.

Kind regards
SBJ

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