THE FREEDOM OF CHOICE

[guest]

I am posting this question from BCF published material.

I think the question, 'How does a person receive a knowledge of the truth?' is a good question.

Have a read of this BCF teaching.

Can anyone explain why this is error and deception?



THE FREEDOM OF CHOICE
Fellowship at the tree of life
 
 
Victor Hall
with Peter Hay and David Baker
 
April 2022
 
 
Scriptures are quoted from NKJV, KJV, NASB and LITV.
 
 
© Victor Hall, Peter Hay and David Baker. 2022


Pastoral care at the tree of life

How does a person receive a knowledge of the truth?

Jesus said that the word of the Father is truth, and by this word a person is able to be sanctified. Joh 17:17. That is, they are made aware of what is not true (the projection associated with their iniquity), and they receive the word of faith proclaiming the obedience that belongs to their sonship. Gal 3:1‑2.

The knowledge of the truth is obtained by hearing the word of God, and through dialogue that is based in this word. 1Jn 1:1‑3. This is not a theological discussion. Rather, it is fellowship in the light of present truth through which a hearer is appropriating faith for their personal fellowship in the offering and sufferings of Christ. Only in this fellowship are they able to obtain their sanctification.

[Boundary Rider]

Essentially it is an exmple of the Word Salad which Peter Hay and David Baker have been obliged to adopt in taking on the role performed by Silas for Paul on their missionary journey --- an amenuensis (An amanuensis (/əˌmænjuˈɛnsɪs/) is a person employed to write or type what another dictates or to copy what has been written by another, and also refers to a person who signs a document on behalf of another under the latter's authority [1] ... Wikipedia)

Another word for their Word Salad is Gobbledygook (Gibberish, also called jibber-jabber or gobbledygook, is speech that is (or appears to be) nonsense: ranging across speech sounds that are not actual words,[1] pseudowords, language games and specialized jargon that seems nonsensical to outsiders.[2] ... Wikipedia).

Observing Vic's rise to God's Messenger status since 1988 both Word Salads and Gobbledygook have always characterised anything pretending to be "Present Truth" which Vic has recently concocted.

If you take apart every section of every sentence in those two paragraphs, you will find that that there is no meaning in them other than what Vic says it is, apparently, but speciously, supported by cherrypicking Scriptural references.

The major heresies involved in this pastiche of "Vicisms" are Vic's "Gospel of Sonship", "fellowship in the light of present truth" (a new twist on an old theme) followed by "Only in this fellowship are they able to obtain their sanctification." which reinforces the exclusiveness of the Present Word which only comes through Vic as God's Angelos Messenger.

With either Peter Hay or David Baker being groomed as Vic's "spiritual sons" to succeed him how can they do other than spew the vomit of "Present Truth" which Vic teaches like this???

BR

[Guest2]

Can anyone explain why this is error and deception?

Thank you guest. You've raised an extremely important question that goes a long way to the core of some of the false teachings at xCF. Before I give you an answer to the question, I must apologise. I would have liked to explain it more consisely, but don't have time right now. So I hope the below make sense. No doubt others more articulate than me will be able to elaborate and/or correct my understanding.

I believe this is a false teaching because of the interpretation of 1 Jn 1:1-3.

"1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. " - NIV

Firstly, the context for this verse is that John was writing a letter to a group of people to address specific issues. One of those particular issues was that some people had gone out from the church and were trying to deceive church members into thinking that Jesus was not real, and that he was not the promised Messiah. If you want a quick refresher on John's letters, I think the Bible Project does a good job of summarising. Yes, I know there can be differences in scriptural understanding, but they do their best to steer clear of particular traditional interpretations and simply focus on what the text says.
https://bibleproject.com/explore/video/1-3-john/

So then, back to 1 John 1:1-3. Why did John say, "...which we have heard... seen with our eyes... looked upon and touched..."? It's because he was stating the obvious. Jesus is real! John was not trying to say that the only way people can receive the word is through John. John was simply saying that Jesus is real, and that he wanted to tell them about it.

So what is sound teaching of 1 John 1:1-3? It's to make the same point that John was making. Jesus is real! And we should all be proclaiming the reality of the risen Jesus. And when John says, "So that you may have fellowship with us", he is making sure that the Christians have fellowship with the ones who proclaim that Jesus is real, and not the 'liars' who deny that Jesus is Christ (i.e. the Messiah); the Son of God (1 John 2:20-22). The fact that Jesus is the Son of God is a fundamental Christian teaching.

In the xCF teaching it is implied that the leaders are the ones 'proclaim[ing] the Word of life'. And here's where they push an understanding on the text, and go beyond the scriptures. They go the next step to imply that without the xCF leaders, church members cannot fellowship with the Father. Clearly, in 1 John 1:1-3, John is not saying that anyone who wishes to call themself a leader, or is part of a particular leadership group, has authority to enable a person to fellowship with the Father.

Then look at the context in which this verse is quoted. "How does a person receive a knowledge of the truth?" The implication is that you cannot know the truth unless it's in 'fellowship' with the xCF leaders, or somehow connected with leaders. This is a false teaching, and misses the point of what John was saying at the outset of 1 John 1. John, like many of the NT writers, was taking time to explain and remind Christians of the things that Jesus did and taught.

I think it's a good reminder for everyone to let the Bible be the Bible, and not push interpretation on it.

[guest]

In the xCF teaching it is implied that the leaders are the ones 'proclaim[ing] the Word of life'. And here's where they push an understanding on the text, and go beyond the scriptures

Guest2

I am praying for those who are captive to Victor Hall and his false teaching.

What does it take to break delusion and deception?

It’s pretty powerful stuff.

I used to feel quite defeated in this dilemma. I don’t now!

It’s a new day for seeing captives set free. Can I encourage the people reading here to maintain a prayer vigil for BCF people…the young, the teenagers, single folk, married couples and families.

[guest]

I cannot believe this stuff is labelled, ‘Fellowship at the tree of life’ net alone, ‘pastoral care at the tree of life’


Have a read and explain to me how this is pastoral care???


This dialogue is the prayer to which James referred when he said, ‘Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up.’ Jas 5:14‑15.

We remember that Jesus prayed that Peter’s faith would not fail. That is, He prayed that, in the day of Peter’s trial, as Christ came alongside him, he would not draw back in unbelief, but would maintain his connection with Christ. By this means, Peter would be converted from his iniquitous zeal and be established in his sanctification as one who strengthened the brethren.


Having chosen to believe that God is their Father, and that they are a son in His house, a person who is not sinning a sin unto death presents themselves for this dialogue in order to be nurtured, trained, taught and disciplined towards obedience to the Father. This is the nature of faith.

It is important to note that if a person has rejected the word of a messenger, and is becoming weak and sick, their recovery requires them to return to the discussion, or word of truth, that they originally dismissed.

If they come to an elder without addressing this fundamental disobedience, in humility and with repentance, they do so with an idol in their heart . By seeking deliverance from their distress without addressing their iniquity, they are asking the elder to bless their idol.

If an elder or a brother receives this one, and prays for them, both the one who has the idol, and the one who presumes to minister blessing to them through prayer, come under the same condemnation. Eze 14:1‑11. This is not fellowship in the light.

[BreakFree]

Dear Guest, I am replying to the original post/question.

Firstly CF doctrine is built upon this fundamental fault. Vic finds the word tree in the book of Genesis then finds the same word tree in say Romans. He then claims that because tree is in Genesis and also in Romans they are talking about the same thing. You simply cannot cherry pick verses and marry them together without understanding context of the original writing.
In the case of the first paragraph Vic hasn't even attempted to link 2 passages or use them in any context, It seems like he just picked a single key word then put a random bible reference in.

In the second paragraph I noticed the term "present truth" I remember when this jargon was introduced. Every time the term "present truth" got thrown around the following reference would follow. 2 Peter 1:12 if you do a search of this scripture you will find more translations put it this way ..."and have been established in the truth which is present with you."
Present Truth only appears in a couple of translations.
From a theological and academic point of view, CF uses quite weak translations of the bible. I will make my point pulling a scripture from the psalms.
Psalm 150:4 (KJV) "Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs".
Last time I checked the organ had not been invented in the time of King David.
Thus Vic not only cherry picks verses out of context he also selects the translation to support his point of view.

[baptist1611]

Hi BreakFree

I agree with what you say about Vic Hall's abuse of Scripture however it is not always the fault of the particular translation he uses. Often he will take an accurately translated word or phrase and pervert it for his evil purposes.

The phrase "in the present truth" in 2 Peter 1:12 is a literal, word-for-word translation of the Greek (en tei parousei aletheiai). The word "parousei" meaning available, at hand, with, present.

As for the organs in Psalm 150, the translators have followed the LXX which renders the Hebrew "ugab" as "organo". The Hebrew word means to breathe or blow and is thought to mean some sort of wind instrument like a pipe or flute. The English word organ is not restricted to large keyboard instruments. We are familiar with the "mouth organ" which may be close to what the psalmist was referring to.

My point is that we should point out transational problems and errors where we they actually occur, but be careful not to be overly critical of our English Bible, lest we cause others to lose faith in the Bible they hold in their hands.

[Dexter]

Replying to guest's post at Sat Jul 22, 2023 2:39 pm

Having chosen to believe that God is their Father, and that they are a son in His house, a person who is not sinning a sin unto death presents themselves for this dialogue in order to be nurtured, trained, taught and disciplined towards obedience to the Father. This is the nature of faith.

This looks like a cellophane (i.e. thinly-veiled) repackaging of the Shepherding Movement. If Derek Prince were still alive, I'm sure he'd love to tell you all about it.

---

It is important to note that if a person has rejected the word of a messenger, and is becoming weak and sick, their recovery requires them to return to the discussion, or word of truth, that they originally dismissed.

I'd like to hear their take on a person who has "received the word of a messenger, and is becoming weak and sick". Asking for a friend who diligently received many words from the messengers, yet still became weak and sick. (Disclosure: I'm that friend.)

-----

By seeking deliverance from their distress without addressing their iniquity, they are asking the elder to bless their idol.

Here's a fact: Only God can deliver you from your distress. I know RFI elders are well-equipped to distribute distress, but I'm yet to hear of a case where they've delivered someone from it.

-----

Then they cried unto the Lord in their trouble, and he delivered them out of their distresses. - Psalms 107:6 KJV

[Dexter]

For anyone unfamiliar with the Shepherding Movement, this article is from 1990:

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

[Hope4]

Isn’t it interesting the title ‘The Freedom of Choice’!!!

There is no ‘freedom’ within this movement because their definition of ‘freedom’ is being a slave to headship.

Those who have escaped, been kicked out or wandered away have taken years to recover their freedom.

Coercive persuasion and mind control techniques are used to keep people in bondage not to see them free!!!!