That line rings a bell from around that era for me. It's a peculiar phrase as it elicits a pitiful kind of shunning, e.g. "Oh, that poor person... but they obviously sinned grievously enough to deserve to be in that mental state, so let's excommunicate them instead of offering them the love and help they need at this time."
I think that's the line they used for Murray too. I'm beginning to think we're not hearing the whole truth about Mr. Wylie. (FWIW, I don't care for gossip and I'm happy to let sleeping dogs lie; I just thought it was worth noting the similar circumstances.)
Friends, this is quite an interesting post.
Sadly we all did things and hurt people while apart of Christian Fellowship. We thought we were doing the right thing. It's only once we are away from the situation can we really see our behaviour for what it was. We were brainwashed, this is not an excuse but a reality. It doesn't make it right but it is what happened. Keep this in mind for our loved ones still trapped in CF. It is difficult to explain the concept of brainwashing to people who have not lived it and why you do certain things.
Lilith made a great point about sometimes you just can't appoligise to the person you have hurt. In these time practice forgiving yourself. Rest assured this though is part of the normal human experience. Given we were programed to be supper human it is very normal to experience regret when you do something wrong. All you can do is learn from it and become a better human because of the experience.
I read a very good book by Desmond TuTu about forgiveness. https://www.booktopia.com.au/the-book-o ... pUEALw_wcB
I choose the book because he lived through Apartheid but then was able to forgive his abusers. He also covers forgiveness on oneself. From a biblical perspective if we are truly sorry and are unable to appoligise God has already forgiven us so we don't need to keep beating ourself. Just work on self improvement. This is the difference between CF giving lip service about being sorry and being truly sorry, the drive to change and learn from our mistakes.
Stargazer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:06 am
What actually happened with Mr. M Wylie? I thought he was one of the head honchos in BCF? Is he an elder still
Murray was unceremoniously stood down about a decade ago I think. I remember hearing murmurings at the time that he suffered from a "fragile mental state" and "depression", although they may have just been rumours.
Even if those rumours were true, I thought they made perfect sense since Murray was a gifted musician and it's generally understood in our society that mental health challenges are par for the course for musical and artistic types.
Although this was several years ago, (or so I think, please correct me if wrong) before Murray's "fragile mental state" removal, I had heard Vic had a major freakout over The Jerusalem Passion. Since no one in these so called "fellowship's" really know the truth of what's happening, what happened or why, all are left to hear from the finges.....those who are closer to the grand poobahs.
So, what I heard is this, VIc was upset that the JP was so successful that it took the shine off the 'reel word of vic' and all were putting the musical beauty first and foremost.....again, instead of vh's special word.
As Murray may said about that time, "It was code for, Murray, you are getting too big for your britches and I must to knock you down a few pegs......don't fret though, it wasn't me, it was JC.....yes, he visited me again and told me you need to repent."
I have been reading this post with many mixed feelings.
On one hand, it shows the deep pain and yearning within our being when we have wronged others. Thank God He gave us a conscience and much gratitude to God, for being merciful to each of us when we didn’t deserve such kindness. I too have had to repent for my superior, religious behaviour while in leadership within BCF.
I will be honest here. Repentance has been a progressive process that has been a reality for me since leaving BCF. There are so many diverse attitudes and behaviours we need to be transparent and honest with ourself and before our Father.
Shame was a huge crisis for me very early in my recovery. I felt so sick in heart and mind that I had been so deceived. I could barely manage to face the shame, the sorrow and the regrets. It is my testimony now, that God was utterly merciful and gracious to never forsake me while I faced this brokenness.
I was so messed up after being excommunicated from my family, home and church. Yes, I was depressed. Yes, I was insecure and unstable. Yes, I was unable to think clearly, rationally or know what I believed. So, whatever the elders at BCF said about me then was probably true.
My challenge was to acknowledge who and what had driven me to that point?
Vic preached on many occasions that the way an unsubmitted woman walked - was into disobedience, blindness and eventually madness. For some time, I was so ill because I believed their condemnation and this curse upon me.
Thanks be to God that He lead me to people who could help me. God provided a GP with insight and compassion. He provided a psychologist who walked ever so gently with me so that I could regain my sanity. It took a long time for this healing to unfold.
In many respects, I am still on this healing journey. I’m not ashamed of this. God took the shame away as I faced the fear and terror.
Before this post becomes too long, I would like to mention several other truths that have been part of my healing.
Firstly, acknowledging the lifetime work of God in my character and walk is very freeing and comforting.
I don’t have to measure up to anyone’s assessment of me! I stand before God and by His grace He will touch my heart, soul and mind, as He wills.
He knows how, when and where to touch my entire being with His love and kindness.
I may never be healed from the abuse till the day of my death but there is no shame in trusting God for the means, the way and the truth we need to be fully restored.
Sorry… I’ve lost my thoughts so I’ll close and add more later.
PS: Desmond Tutu’s books were instrumental for me, in seeing forgiveness and healing in greater depth. Thank God for those who have suffered and who choose to encourage us with the comfort they received. Isn’t this what the Body of Christ is meant to be?
@Seeker… Ah the JP 2.0 in Melbourne revealed quite a storm I remember. It was one of the first times Ray Jackson Jnr was sprung as a lier to all. The whole choir and orchestra was summoned to the cow shed hall where he excitedly wanted to share the news he had. I watched in excitement as he stood up the front to tell everyone that Kevin Connor had accepted his invitation to come share the word and truth behind some songs that were going to be sung that KC had wrote. Ray was bragging how they had seen the truth and were coming to MCF for reconciliation. Everyone was so excited at this healing. Well the weekend had come and gone, and there was no word from KC. KC was questioned as to why he didn’t speak? The real answer was he never got asked. Ray had made up that whole garbage to get people in the door. They were always going on about “getting people onto the property”. MCF just added another knot to their string of lies.
I remember booklet(s) titled; Anxiety to offering (vic), The Evil Of Our Good(time maurice) and several of Falky's tomes on women suffering from depression and/or anxiety. The crux of it was if those stupid, unsubmitted women out there would just heed vi'c word and they would magically be delivered from this oppression....all without therapy, anti-dep and/or anti-anx meds. I remember telling my wife that he had a lot of hubris in saying/writing this crap.... and he better be careful giving medical advice since he is not a Dr. Unless that's another designation given to him an average little Jewish guy.....or was it a wisp of something...hmm. One lady in the fellowship got off all her meds and did not fair well at all.
I hope the more they enclose themselves, more will be revealed.
basically just shut up, stay out of husbands affairs,
Interesting Seeker….. I know for a fact Dr. Vic has assumed the role of giving medical advice to somebody who had been diagnosed with postpartum depression. The persons doctor had prescribed her medication for the very normal life situation. But NO, Dr. Vic had his own treatment for the person. He took away the medication that was prescribed and the person submitted to his treatment. He actually told the person it was not needed. Needless to say it made matters worst. Dr. Vic, I say to you, are you crossing the line of legalities here? Or are you so removed from ethical living, you do not know the straight path to walk anymore? Very concerning…. But yes there are still people there who idolise him! Go figure!
