Yes, and adding to Paul's valid question, there is an NT scripture (rather than an OT one which deals with prophets etc) which states categorically... in my paraphrase which is easier to read...
"If your brother errs ... challenge him face-to-face... and take along another brother to witness the conversation" and while it is just my paraphrase, surely it is easier to understand?
Isn't that exactly what those who were ignored actually tried hard to do, and were rebuffed by "the system"?
How can they have been wrong to do so, unless in the eyes of the "cover-up gang"?
If you are interested, the book I wrote about immanuel was never printed but created experimentally and posted to www.wildernesschristianity.net/immanuel with each chapter as a separate pdf (for security and integrity) after many hours of questioning folk, including Jeff Hammond (whose Biblical Church Pattern had been withdrawn from sale and copies in Adelaide destroyed (remember the 3rd Reich and library books in the 1930's under reichsfuhrer Adolf Hitler/Schickelgruber?)
Seriously, I came across an oblique reference to the morality problem prior to that which made me realise that there were TWO seperate and distinct Ray Jacksons, something that I had never been told by any of the people at CCA Adelaide.
As someone taught to be careful about what you write, as no hard evidence was there when I wrote my book, I had to write from an earlier perspective where as Paul confirms, things were not quite as heinous in behaviour.
If you read each separate pdf chapter carefully, I believe you will garner some stuff that may fit well into what you have read here from two or three writers. By carefully, I mean read every word in each totally complete seperate pdf.
There is only one way to describe this. A total and complete cover-up.
For what it is worth, it wasn't until later when I encountered on-line Offiler's final successor (Joe McKnight), who went to be with the Lord some years ago, still living in or near Seattle, I pieced further history together. Unfortunately my previously sharp memory is failing because of age (born in January 1935); this is why I write now, to put stuff on record.
Please read it.
I can't emphasise this enough.
Please read it....
There is no inaccuracy per se, just stuff which I said before that I was unable to prove.
My maternal grandfather was a judge in the UK, and he taught my mother well about what you can and can't write
I appreciate all of you ones who've been around during hurtful earlier times. My mission was to document what happened primarily THIS time around, notwithstanding knowing a little about earlier goings on and how it was consistent with but different to this time around.
Now that I think of it, it's almost as if VIc CANONIZED INTO THEOLOGY the ways of ministering of the earlier generation. The earlier generation had been controlling and unbelieving of the congregation and Vic's teachings essentially put that into doctrine via headship, family order, offering and 'Administration of the Lamb' teachings.
It gave the elders DOCTRINAL LICENSE to minister in a PSYCHOPATHIC, SOCIOPATHIC mode and simultaneously think you are doing the right thing in 'love'.
That is precisely the state of affairs at MCF. The leaders are almost without exception family members who can speak the lingo. And are given lots of power and status. They have no incentive, and often chosen because of being 'yes men'.
In 30+ years at MCF I didn't have a sensible BIblical discussion with one person. It always came back to 'Vic said'.
Surely we are not to leave the weak and young for dead.
And, yes, Connor et al did do exactly what Scripture outlines: point out the errors with witnesses. They did their part from that point of view.
But, yes, what happens when the leadership ignores you? That then goes to the other discussion we've been having here . .
How democratic! How un-'Christian'! And 'even' the ladies got a go by Peter: 'Brothers AND sisters . .'!Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them
Why not by the elders?
Obviously the apostle elders were not control freaks. They knew these men would be tested by their fruit. They also knew, what better way to avoid favouritism and ensure diversity? That was wisdom.
If that had been done at MCF we would have even had geek deacons who 'ummed and ahhed' and deacons with bad hair or tatts. Not just smooth-talkers with stand-up comedy routines, exceptional musical talents and hair-dos, all members of the same families.
Such as it is now, BCF/MCF is stuck with a bunch of wobbly pillars, all relying on a rusty, rotten, moth-eaten central column called Vic 'The Vicious Hall' Hall. Once that column cracks, it will be interesting to see what happens to the wobbly pillars.
I couldn't agree more
BTW having been through another mob of "controllers" I have felt since streetcar Mk2 (this being streetcar mK3 if my maths is good enough!) I have felt a call to blow bits open that need blowing open because I have seen hurting people elsewhere as well as here.
So, If you feel I need to back-pedal, please tell me, and please do so here because you are my brethren of both genders. Transparency in dealing with ALL PROBLEMS is needed here - even if elsewhere it is not.
If I sound over-zealous, particularly with quoting scripture, please forgive me, because what we are fighting is a crowd who are impersonating the real Lord God of the universe and His only-begotten son.
In worldly terms, that would be treason.
Treason in wartime (and aren't we in a war?) has been punishable by death in past generations.
We need see what they have done in perspective.
THEY are not like Paul (not you mate!!) and Silas, in jail "for the Lord", but traitors - in modern terms like the guy they let out of Guantanamo Camp Delta who served a few months in Adelaide's Yatala Prison because of noisy bleeding hearts, and earlier this year beat up his new girl friend.
If interested, I can point you to where I wrote about that too.
I don't know about you folks, but when I came into MCF (from the Lutheran church in my case) I DID search the Scriptures thoroughly and found them RIGHT ON THE MARK (re their known teachings).
But I very quickly got disappointed in some of the culture I saw but I accepted that no-one was perfect. What REALLY disappointed me was that NO-ONE was interested in IMPROVING it or listening to me. And I mean NO-ONE. Everyone was too scared it turned out but I didn't learn that for quite a while.
We are NOT to accept lording over:
That is EXACTLY what MCF did to us so perfectly for 30 years or more.2 Cor 11:19, 20
You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise!
For you tolerate it if:
- anyone enslaves you
- anyone devours you
- anyone takes advantage of you
- anyone exalts himself
- anyone hits you in the face
Paul said in 2 Cor 11 NOT to accept that! He wondered why they did it!
He described it as another gospel:
This is how he described people who led like this:3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
In one of the most hilarious and violent Scriptures in the NT, Paul did not mince words about the outcome he wished for the slave-drivers (who were calling for a return to circumcision):1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. 2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
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