Breakaway Churches

[Haggai 1:7]

I was just reading the main post again about “don’t come back Vic” and it got me seriously wondering if a church like Cairns could exit RFI as a whole. They can most likely support their own infrastructure without help from RFI and I “think” all assets are owned and controlled by Cairns directly (I can look into this further if that’s important).

It could then be a domino effect for other smaller (but self sufficient) churches to breakaway. And then they could reform to help pick up (and financially carry) the really small churches who are reliant on RFI.

This seems like a very achievable goal (not distracting from Samson Rising or bringing those matters to light). As stated a few times my goal is to see a reformed church. And this to me sounds like a potential way of seeing this occur in our lifetime.

The combined church network is not that big in Australia. On the surface this may just be doable. Again, not distracting from bringing matters to light or holding ones to account for deeds done.

I’m thinking Cairns, Emerald, Adelaide and Perth as the key players. The issue as others have noted is that the key people in each church are actually Brisbane or Toowoomba leaders.

[Paul Kovaks]

You could hope.

But here’s the big if:

Is there anyone in these places in leadership not horrifically tainted by the cultish way?
Do we realize these guys ‘clairvoyantly’ created literal crosses for their congregation members and pronounced it the word of the Lord?
They meddled in peoples lives DISGUSTINGLY.
They did not stand up for truth when it was not forced on them.

These guys need to find Jesus again.

If they go, who’s left to set truly Biblical doctrine & culture?
If anyone still believes in solid restorationist teachings, is anyone in these places able to divine the good from the bad?

I’ve got my doubts.

[guest]

I agree. At a minimum, all the leadership group would need some time off. And many of the leaders, frankly, are not fit to lead. I think it requires outside leadership with the help of another church, or churches. I don't mean that any breakaway church necessarily joins another church; but they need a leader who can help church members get back the simple Christian basics without all the CF pseudo-Christian-doctrine layers.

I don't believe anyone in the current leadership group could do that, not without some time away from leadership. Every leader needs a true mirror to look into. That mirror is not the CF Presbytery, which produces an incredibly distorted view of reality. In the first instance, I believe looking into the mirror is knowing and believing the true gospel.

At least one positive culture would come in handy right about now. CF members have all been trained well to throw away the old books. This time, just throw them all away...

[guest]

Dear Haggai and Guest,

Please read or listen to the book 'Combating Cult Mind Control' by Steve Hassan (available on Audible).
I think it will help change your mindset.

What is not well understood by some posting to this site is that ALL the members of these churches are victims of very dangerous cult mind control.
Each and every person needs to leave and go and find a place to heal. This won't be possible if everyone stays together as a whole.

As a great man of faith here in Australia said in the early 1990s, the whole movement is a leprous church and needs to be dismantled so each person can go find a place to heal.

There is a big difference to realising you are in fact a victim of serious abuse compared with having a victim mindset. A victim mindset doesn't help anyone whereas realising you are a victim (like being sick or injured) with a proactive attidude gives the person the ability to be healed.

[Dexter]

Dear Haggai and Guest,

Please read or listen to the book 'Combating Cult Mind Control' by Steve Hassan (available on Audible).
I think it will help change your mindset.

What is not well understood by some posting to this site is that ALL the members of these churches are victims of very dangerous cult mind control.
Each and every person needs to leave and go and find a place to heal. This won't be possible if everyone stays together as a whole.

As a great man of faith here in Australia said in the early 1990s, the whole movement is a leprous church and needs to be dismantled so each person can go find a place to heal.

There is a big difference to realising you are in fact a victim of serious abuse compared with having a victim mindset. A victim mindset doesn't help anyone whereas realising you are a victim (like being sick or injured) with a proactive attidude gives the person the ability to be healed.

May I also suggest adding to your reading list a book called Healing Spiritual Abuse, by Ken Blue. I don’t remember if I’ve already recommended it here somewhere else but it really is helpful.

[Haggai 1:7]

May I also suggest adding to your reading list a book called Healing Spiritual Abuse, by Ken Blue. I don’t remember if I’ve already recommended it here somewhere else but it really is helpful.

Hi Dexter
This was an interesting read. I remember there was a section about “naming” the abuse and acknowledging it and that is where my experience doesn’t align with those on this site. I have had restrictions, of course, but not really feel abused. I don’t know, maybe I should re-read it. I did like it’s contrast between Christian leadership and spiritual abuse because I do find that those who write these style of books do so academically and oftentimes do not have a faith of their own, and so there are things we are called to do in scripture that are different to the world (that’s the point), and I easily justify it as “oh they don’t understand”. Quite ironic as I’m reading their book to better understand something haha.

Without deliberately trying to change the subject, can people tell me about their current churches and what they love about them (that’s obviously different to BCF). I have visited a number of churches over the years and I’ve just been underwhelmed by their lack of study of the scriptures. If they do have a Bible study it goes for 30 mins at max. Maybe that’s a good thing that I need a perspective shift in?

I do have a lot of family still in the church so it’s not an easy “3, 2, 1, let’s go” … and as stated before I do not see a need to change church, but the church can definitely change.

To the previous guest, I receive your encouragement. At present I do not feel abused but equally I won’t dismiss your words lightly. Selfishly I think of all the friends who I will no longer have an easy context to meet up with, the buildings and equipment we have paid money to, sweat and toiled over, and the friendships with older folk who I would simply have no reason to reach out to if we all went to separate churches. These are temporary and selfish reasons, I’m seeing this as I type.

When I say I would love to see a reformed church, I see this as a business that goes through cultural change. It requires a change of leadership. It requires those unwilling to make the changes to also leave and it requires fresh blood. It is very possible and companies with nearly 100 years of history are proof of this.

But again, I’m not dismissing your words lightly. I’m simply explaining my initial thoughts before I consider this further.

[Sending.flowers]

Without deliberately trying to change the subject, can people tell me about their current churches and what they love about them (that’s obviously different to BCF). I have visited a number of churches over the years and I’ve just been underwhelmed by their lack of study of the scriptures. If they do have a Bible study it goes for 30 mins at max. Maybe that’s a good thing that I need a perspective shift in?

I my opinion churches should offer a few options as not everyone has the same needs. Advanced theology is not for everyone - churches should be welcome to put on more deep discussions of scripture but should not expect every single member to have the time, intellect and desire to pursue it as a subject.

They should be led by people with proper training and as discussions - the XCF leaders are not trained appropriately nor do they hold any space for the congregation to participate. It's very "this is how things are and if you even slightly disagree you will be dealt with harshly".

The main sermons should be simple enough for older children and outsiders to understand. And a lot of adults don't need deep discussions in church, they need to be uplifted and encouraged (especially in our current cost of living crisis). Jesus's message was one of hope and encouragement. People should not be shamed for not having the bandwidth for complex sermons.