The baptism service has changed

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BreakFree
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The baptism service has changed

Post by BreakFree »

Hi all

Peter Hay announced changes to the baptism service on sunday at BCF. I have picked out quotes that give explanations of the changes. then a detailed quote that has details of the new format.

BCF - 26 Jan 2025- quotes from sermon by Peter Hay

Purpose of baptism:
Baptism is the substance of an immersion, not just in water, it's an immersion into a process and this process is the means by which the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit's covenant purpose for us can be accomplished….So it's not a point in time sacrament representing something, it is an entire process. Now what is that covenant purpose? That is, let us make man in our image and according to our likeness. That is the purpose of baptism
Who can baptise:
Now, when a person is illuminated to these implications of the gospel, a believer, that believer will request baptism by water under the hands of a first fruits disciple. Right, so baptism, it does matter who baptises you, but the baptism doesn't require an ordination. A person who is a first fruits disciple is able to baptise others. So the question would be what's a first fruits disciple? Well a first fruit is a person who is firstly a worthy house, because the gospel has access to their house and they are being called out or sanctified by that word and they are beginning to bear the fruit of that word as a cultural expression. And they are a disciple because they are receiving that word, walking in it, and they are themselves a follower of Christ on the pathway that he pioneered for them. That is the qualification to baptize.
Criticism of previous baptism practices:
And it's pretty straightforward. In the first instance it's necessary to recognize that the scriptures pertaining to baptism are not defining or articulating baptismal formulas. Jesus wasn't saying that's the words you've got to say over a person, that's not what the disciples said they were saying over people, they were describing an entire process, connecting people to their predestined pathway so they could be made in the image and likeness of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Can you see that when Jesus was saying that he wasn't saying that's the words you have to say over a person and when Peter said you've got to be baptized into the name of Jesus Christ he wasn't saying that's what you've got to be said when you get immersed.


The thing that we just really do need to take stock of and has been perhaps more insidious among us has been the importance and the emphasis of the words associated with our baptism. Now this won't be true for everybody but it has had purchase among our fellowship of churches. Alright so I've been very specific about how I've written this. Perhaps more insidiously and unhelpfully has been the importance and emphasis of the words associated with our baptisms, that is, into the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, as if there is power imparted through the use of these particular words. The emphasis and insistence on the formula by some is what has made baptism sacramental, as if the power is in the words that are said when a person is immersed in water. Now the reason why this is, why we just need to take stock here, I'm not saying our formula was worse than other formulas, I'm saying the insistence on the formula is the problem in every denomination. These appropriations of baptism into the name have rendered their practice not too dissimilar from an incantation. Now interestingly when we look through our history and the leaders who have pushed this point the strongest and the hardest, they have often been the most corrupt among us and that's because their view of the name has been very little different from an incantation.

The mark of baptism:
So this form of doctrine to which you were delivered, that's go therefore and make disciples. And the mark of baptism, right, so if you have been baptised into this process, the mark of it is obedience from the heart. The mark of baptism is that you can be discipled by the word of present truth that establishes you in the daily process through which the initiative of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is being accomplished in your life every day. That's what it means to be baptised.
Summary of three dimensions of baptism:
In summary, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ and baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not formulas or words that must be invoked upon a believer making them a part of the church. Rather, baptism into the name is one's immersion into the process established by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit through which we are being made in the image and likeness of God. This one baptism, which Jesus established and was consummated when he received the name above every name requires a person to be born of the divine nature and set by the Father in the body of Christ so that they are able to live as a son of God in Christ. They must also be baptised with water into the fellowship of Christ, death, burial and resurrection to walk in a new and living way upon which regeneration and renewing are at work within them. And finally, they must be baptized in the Holy Spirit and become a temple for the Holy Spirit which enables them to be witnesses of Christ to the world. That is our baptism, that's the one baptism. As we walk each day with Christ in these aspects of the one baptism we are progressively changing from one degree of glory to another into his image.

The changes to the baptism service
Now in these last couple of minutes, I'm going to explain some changes to our baptismal service that's part of the reforming of our culture as a church in the light of the gospel of God. So what's going to happen? It's going to look reasonably similar to what we do.

There's going to be a person who's hosting the baptism, so next week we're having a baptism and I'm going to be the host of that baptism, not because I am an elder of the church but because I am a Firstfruits disciple among you, with you, journeying together. So the baptism service will be hosted by a Firstfruits disciple of the church and then two other first fruits disciples will be in the water baptizing those who have requested this immersion, remember this is the second dimension of baptism.

At the commencement of the service the host will gather and welcome folk, they will then give a short orientation to water baptism, acknowledging the faith response of those who've requested it.

So there's an explanation or a declaration of what's happening and then there's an acknowledgement that those who are being baptized have demonstrated or articulated the faith that belongs to their identification with this process.

Second element is testimony, so we normally do this but this is going to change a little bit too. So each person being baptized will give a short testimony declaring their faith for water baptism. Now here's a key point, it's not just whatever anybody thinks about water baptism. Their testimony should reflect the true understanding of this dimension of baptism.

It will therefore be the fruit of their fellowship with a disciple who is a firstfruits believer in the church and in the case of children with their parents. So both things are true and parents you're going to need to get clear on this baptism as well to explain to your children when they want to be baptised this is what you're choosing. This is train up a child in the way they should go and when they want to choose it they are choosing for themselves that way. That's the way of salvation isn't it? It's the way of regeneration and renewing.

Alright, so we've got testimonies written and ready to go. Normally what we do, particularly with the children, is we have them come on up and stand next to the host, we're still going to do that but if you are a child being baptized we're going to ask your parents to come up and stand with you as you share your testimony because the reality is the dying and the living of Jesus is going to happen at the hand of your parents. That's what you're choosing aren't you? So a child who is being baptized will also be accompanied by their parents as they share their testimony before the congregation.

Right now once that's happened, the hosting elder or firstfruits disciple is going to declare the purpose of baptism in the same way that a person who is dedicating their children makes a statement of purpose. Right, so as the host next week this is the statement I'm going to read once we have heard the testimonies of all those who have been baptized:

So, Joe on your confession of faith that you have been born as a son of God from the seed of the divine nature which is Christ and have been placed by the Father into the body of Christ, we then as disciples of Christ and members of his body, baptise you by water into the fellowship of Christ's suffering death, his burial and his resurrection. We do this so that just as Christ was raised from the dead to live by the glory of the Father, so you also with us will walk and live as Christ does in sanctification as a member of his body which is the church by the power of his resurrection life.

That is the statement of purpose for baptism. That's what's happening.


And then after that, right, the host, that's gonna be me, I'm going to explain to everyone what's going to be said to the people being baptized when they go into the water, all right? So this is the statement that's going to be made just before the children or the whoever's being baptized, the adults, get baptized into the water. We are no longer saying we baptise you into the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. We're no longer doing that. That denies the work of the Father who is the one who places us in Christ and if it's not understood properly then it has an unhelpful communication that is not what baptism is. So what is going to be said is what is happening. All right, so it's not a mystical name. This is what's happening. So I'll read the statement then I'm going to explain to everyone when these people are being baptized this is what's going to be said:

Joe, we baptize you into the fellowship of Christ's offering and suffering, that is into his death burial and resurrection.

okay so then I'm further going to explain that if a person being baptized has not yet been filled with the Spirit the baptizers will lay hands on them and pray be baptized in the Holy Spirit. Because this is part of these three dimensions of baptism that belong to our pilgrimage.

So once I've read that statement and then explained what's going to happen to each person as they're being submerged in the water, each person will then individually submerged in the water, each person will then individually go in the water, the two first fruits disciples who are baptising them will say, as I've already explained, we baptise you into the fellowship of Christ's offering and sufferings, that is into his death burial and resurrection. The believer will then be immersed in the water.

Immediately after their baptism there'll be an opportunity to sing a song of thanksgiving, which those who are being baptized will have chosen. As the one being baptized, the elders and the congregation rejoice together, it's a fellowship and if a person has not been baptized in the Holy Spirit the baptizers will lay hands on them and pray for them as I said before saying be baptized into the Holy Spirit.

So that is quite a brief run through just what the Lord has illuminated to us about baptism and part of our repentance and reformation has been a change in our baptismal services which reflect the reality of an immersion into a process through which each person is being made in the image and likeness of God.
the new baptism and statements read like swearing an oath to the leaders to follow them rather than the father, son and holy spirit
Paul Kovaks
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Re: The baptism service has changed

Post by Paul Kovaks »

The theme running through everything they’re doing is to go turn everything into a relational process (involving parents, husbands or elders), no sacraments or ceremonies allowed.

My biblical assessment for what it’s worth.

There’s some yea & some nay IMO.
I just studied this again - in Scripture and the pre-Nicean early church fathers & Luther vs other mainstream Protestant vs Pentecostals vs Oneness cults - this week because the name formula & purpose of baptism came up amongst our friends & family,

YEA
I think I agree with xCF that the LJC name was likely overdone by RJ Snr et al.
Although there’s a tiny bit of evidence the early church fathers condoned either FSHS (as per Matt 28) or LJC (as per Acts).
And even Martin Luther agreed the apostles likely baptised into LJC. Despite Luther sticking to the Catholic - at the time - FSHS.

YEA
So because of the ambiguity I agree with xCF that the formula is not crucial:
It’s instead about: are you repented and committed to the death, burial & resurrection of Christ?

NAY
But now xCF in their usual control / bull-in-a-China-shop style no longer baptise into any formula!
Of course they would do that just to upset everyone!

Everything is a process to them,
There are no ceremonies or sacraments,

What is their sin?
It’s dogmatism. Ego.
It’s presumption they’re right. About stuff we can never know for sure.
It’s preaching beyond what was written as Paul calls it.
Trying to make themselves unique again!
For the sake of it.

If I was running a church I would baptise in both names (as is often the case in the church I currently go to): into the name FSHS & LJC to literally fulfil both Matt 28 & Acts and leave no doubt or room for debate.

NAY
Of course xCF also now links baptism to all of their favourite hits of living in submission to headship etc,

But we just can’t agree with that embellishment.

The Bible simply implies they should have repented (Acts 2) and confessed belief in Christ (Acts 8).
Last edited by Paul Kovaks on Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
Stargazer
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Re: The baptism service has changed

Post by Stargazer »

All the new CF baptism process screams “bow down to the presbytery ..do what we say or you won’t ever be worthy”. Positive spin is that these baptisms will be rare because CF don’t get new people TO baptise! Thank God
BreakFree
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Re: The baptism service has changed

Post by BreakFree »

There's not many children being born either.
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Dexter
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Re: The baptism service has changed

Post by Dexter »

But now xCF in their usual control / bull-in-a-China-shop style no longer baptise into any formula!
Seems to me it’s still a formula. They just lengthened it and call it a “statement” now.

Their constant, restless striving to set themselves above and beyond all other Christendom is just a petulant game of one-upmanship, fueled by pride. It reminds me of that old humorous adage:

“You’re unique… just like everybody else.”
👋 :ugeek:
BreakFree
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Re: The baptism service has changed

Post by BreakFree »

That’s a good observation Paul that everything is a process. It means that members can never attain anything. They can never be sure of their salvation, they can never be sure of where they stand with God. you can’t just be saved or even be a Christian unless you meet the three dimensions of repentance and the three dimensions of baptism and believe every present truths and submit to whatever the leaders says, and you can do all that and still be told that you are trying too hard to be religious and still fail. Making it a process creates total dependence on the leaders. Baptised into the death, burial and resurrection can mean whatever they want it to mean, and they can keep putting new conditions on you that you have to meet so that you will never make it to the end of the process. And even if you do everything they say, they will never tell you that you are achieved your complete baptism. It’s this vicious cycle.
Helen Pomery
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Re: The baptism service has changed

Post by Helen Pomery »

Thank you BreakFree.

Your short summary resonates with me. I can vividly remember that hopelessness of never being assured of anything. My faith had been shattered and almost destroyed by men claiming to be ‘messengers of God’

Darkness, despair and depression leaves us in a terrifyingly lonely place. To be robbed of the gospel message of good news is Satan’s work.

The enemy seeks to rob, kill and destroy (John 10:10)

Compare that reality of hopeless despair, which is present in BCF, with the truth of Ephesians 1:3

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places”
Sam Watson
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Re: The baptism service has changed

Post by Sam Watson »

Interesting they’ve made it so complicated with their own doctrine and spin when the Bible is clear and simple. Do you really think that if you get either LJC or FSHS or the BCF version wrong you’re going to hell? God sees our heart and that’s where it ends. The thief on the cross didn’t get any baptism and still ended up in paradise.

Matthew 28:19
New King James Version
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
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