“Corporate prayer before personal prayer”- CF leaders are using coercive control to take prayer away from you

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BreakFree
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“Corporate prayer before personal prayer”- CF leaders are using coercive control to take prayer away from you

Post by BreakFree »

Trigger warning

The presbytery are trying to control members even in their personal prayer- they don't even want you to pray independently from them. The recent messaging about prayer is gaslighting the whole church, telling members that they don’t know how to pray and that their personal prayer for their own lives is not what God wants. The only prayer the leaders want is prayer that supports the agenda of the presbytery. They shame members for praying about the issues going on their lives and push them to join the “corporate prayer” agenda. The leaders are essentially saying there is no true prayer outside the prayer sanctioned by leaders.

To those on the inside, your prayer life is between you and God. the presbytery don’t have a right to control your personal conversation with God. They do not define what prayer is, how to pray or where you can pray.

In coercive control, Religious and spiritual abuse can include:
• forcing you to participate in religious activities
• stopping you from taking part in your religious or cultural practices
• misusing spiritual or religious beliefs and practices to justify abuse (physical and non-physical), violence or coercive control or to restrict or control your decisions, or to take away human rights.
https://www.qld.gov.au/community/gettin ... ve-control

The below are a selection of quotes coming out of the MCF NBS that redefine prayer

MCF NBS – Session by Vic Hall - 29 DEC 2024
“So I want to talk now today about prayer, because I don't think we have any understanding about prayer.”

“So we don't know what to pray for and you do not know what to pray for unless the Spirit enables you to pray. Now there's two dimensions of prayer here. One with an illumination from the Spirit that tells you what you should be praying for, which will be after the will of God. The other one is when you're praying in the Spirit, you're praying in tongues, you do not know what you are praying for.”

“When it comes to praying in the Spirit, we don't know what to pray for. So when we're praying, let's not be too clever about how smart we are about what we're praying for, because we do not know what to pray for as we ought”

“so before you go to your personal prayer meeting you better come to the corporate prayer meeting, well that's where his tabernacle is, where we are in a fellowship together with the ascending and descending upon the Son of Man”

“the Holy Spirit is the source of prayer, but what's it look like? Or what's the capacity of prayer? Well, that it's through intercession and travail. So if there's not the Spirit and if it's not working through an intercession, and I'll put intercession first travail second, you don't have prayer. you're just mind chattering, what you think you want from the groaning and travailing of your life, and you're petitioning God for something which he may or may not be interested in giving”

“now that's what we're doing every Friday morning. it's a travail of prayer and what is that? it's the capacity of the Holy Spirit in us to bring forth, using the power of then sevenfold Spirit of God, the purposes of God that belong to their covenant purpose.”
MCF Sermon by Leon Worth - 12 Jan 2025
“We don't inherently know what nor how to pray. And we don't know what we don't know. We haven't understood what it is to be joined in the fellowship of prayer which is to be joined to the offering of Christ.”

“But we all do begin in weakness, having engaged in some form or another in Sacramental alternatives to prayer… Most notably, an emotion will be quite a key and a manifest element in this expression. A second example here is the groaning or the moaning of mortality, meaning the cry for relief and recovery from the rigors of life that befall the mind and the body. Now you might not be in that much turmoil, but the element of this can still be part of the expression and fear and anxiety will of course be manifest in and through this expression.”

“A prayer gathering corporally is not a pragmatic, rostered event for like-minded Christians to meet based on geography or proximity of others living in an area. That would be quite removed from what we understand as the corporate prayer meeting, but rather we gather in his name in the place given for fellowship with the Father's Son and Holy Spirit.”

“Can I just prod this a little bit that you may know those within you gather? You may have had seasons together at other points. The kind of just prod the fact that we gather in His name in the place for fellowship with the Father's Son and Holy Spirit, let not the familiar be the defining element. But let's see this lifted to how we've already been commended to consider corporate prayer as this meeting place.”

“And again, just to clarify, I'm not saying the context given as being a particular house on a street, a particular roof of your head, although that's very important. But it's helpful to regard the place of corporate prayer as the administration of Christ, among his churches, and that may be an upgrade for you to be considering this.”

“The place where we pray is important. This is given by Presbytery. This is in fellowship with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.”

“And is the priestly ministry of Christ to us, as He stands and walks among us. And when we are illuminated to this reality, we indeed say how awesome is this corporate place of fellowship to which I have been called. Now, so the corporate prayer meeting is therefore situated at the ladder, meaning the context in which there is a functioning presbytery. To be found in this place means that we're connected to the fellowship of presbytery.”

“This is, we are putting this alongside and saying this is the corporate place - the corporate prayer meeting - being the secret place of prayer. Who would have thought? you would think I've got to be secretive. I need to be on my own. Let's just go a bit harder here. Maybe I would be isolated that would be the secret place of prayer, but it's just drawing a line through these prior thinkings, these prior perspectives.”

“Before we come to the personal prayer meeting, we need to give priority to and come to the corporate prayer meeting. …. Corporate prayer is foundational. So where we have considered our own personal prayer as the focus or a reference point, a renewed perspective is needed here. For it is from the fellowship of corporate prayer that an individual will know their sanctification and obedience.”

“There's a distinction though between personal prayer and corporate prayer. I want to encourage us to also, a different theme here, but just to encourage us to concerning our personal prayer, the morning and evening sacrifice. But our focus in the current season being to lift up the need for corporate prayer and the nature of this meeting.”

“It's an astounding reality that praying in faith is out of specific point in time, and it's in a particular season, that it's bringing what is outside or beyond time into the present day. A new dimension revealed and breaking in upon us today.”

So it goes without saying that it's not our prayer then is not defined by our past history, our personal expectations or our future aspirations.”

“So our participation in intercessory prayer is firstly to be joined to the intercession of the Holy Spirit. And so we must take heed, listen and be led in this way. This will enable us to remain within the fellowship of understanding. It's not of our mind. We kick back to this point, don't we? It's not of our own knowledge.”
MCF Sermon by Sean Worth - 26 Jan 2025
“This is what we were considering over the prayer and fasting weekend and the whole key to this is joining the prayer of a righteous one which is Christ himself. It's not the prayer that we self-generate.”

“And this is what prayer is, it's that, it's joining that fellowship. It's nothing less than that. There is not another form of prayer that is just humans talking what they want. That's not prayer.”

“I'd hate for anyone, children, I'd hate you think that you can't talk to God and it won't have an impact on him. That what you say he will listen to but he wants to hear your spiritual prayer, not your fleshly prayer, not your fleshly desires”
Buddy
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Re: “Corporate prayer before personal prayer”- CF leaders are using coercive control to take prayer away from you

Post by Buddy »

To further control the sheep, they issue a weekly "prayer focus" that tells them what they MUST pray for in their prayer groups. I'll see if I can dig a few up to post. The usual message of praying for the messengers comes through loud and clear in many of them. Vics necromancer aka Peter Hay delivered a chilling 4-week message on prayer during Covid. Unfortunately, all the pdf's have been removed.
Paul Kovaks
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Re: “Corporate prayer before personal prayer”- CF leaders are using coercive control to take prayer away from you

Post by Paul Kovaks »

And already in 2016 when we left, the local Friday morning house prayer meeting (with eg Ray Jackson Jnr in our case) had become a looney bin and I let Jackson and 3 other elders know.

Jackson was asking that the goal of our prayers were to attempt to match up with (predict !) - and support - the coming Sunday’s communion message.

So he gave examples of others prayers that had matched up in previous weeks,

I pointed out that these were just regurgitations of the previous communion messages that were already along the same lines.

I told Ray I didn’t think that’s how God or prayer works or had much value, and I would instead continue to pray what was on my heart.
Last edited by Paul Kovaks on Fri Feb 07, 2025 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Buddy
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Re: “Corporate prayer before personal prayer”- CF leaders are using coercive control to take prayer away from you

Post by Buddy »

They talk about free worship...... encouraging the body to bring forth a song, prophecy, testimony or exhortation, you must stand in line until asked to whisper it in the ear of one of the 'elder's (I call them vicers) for approval. If what the Lord has laid in your heart does not line up with that ultra, glorious phrase "present truth",(aka as vics changing of the goalposts) you will be sent to the bench and picked out for a meeting with the vicers to set you straight. I failed to understand the cf's have a very different meaning for the word free~
BreakFree
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Re: “Corporate prayer before personal prayer”- CF leaders are using coercive control to take prayer away from you

Post by BreakFree »

I can remember one Sunday finding enough courage to go up the front. I had read a scripture during the week and was encouraged by it. In my naivety, I went up the front to share the scripture. I was turned around and told to sit back down no explanation other then 'this is not of the spirit, you can't just read from the bible'. It was shocking and crushing at the same time.
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Dexter
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Re: “Corporate prayer before personal prayer”- CF leaders are using coercive control to take prayer away from you

Post by Dexter »

BreakFree wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 10:16 am I can remember one Sunday finding enough courage to go up the front. I had read a scripture during the week and was encouraged by it. In my naivety, I went up the front to share the scripture. I was turned around and told to sit back down no explanation other then 'this is not of the spirit, you can't just read from the bible'. It was shocking and crushing at the same time.
Brooooo the fact that they told you you can’t just read from the Bible is hilarious :lol: Sad and traumatising too, of course, but absolutely hilarious coming from a church. I wonder what spirit they were of if they didn’t want to hear the Word of God.
👋 :ugeek:
Helen Pomery
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Re: “Corporate prayer before personal prayer”- CF leaders are using coercive control to take prayer away from you

Post by Helen Pomery »

”So I want to talk now today about prayer, because I don't think we have any understanding about prayer.”

Vic Hall
Who needs understanding to talk to your closest friend whom you love and who loves you?

Here’s Spurgeon’s encouragement about prayer.
”Praying at all times.”

Ephesians 6:13

What countless prayers we have offered from the first moment we learned to pray. Our first prayer was a prayer for ourselves; we asked that God would have mercy upon us and blot out our sin. He heard us. But when He had blotted out our sins like a cloud, then we had more prayers for ourselves.

We have had to pray for sanctifying grace, for constraining and restraining grace; we have been led to crave for a fresh assurance of faith, for the comfortable application of the promise, for deliverance in the hour of temptation, for help in the line of duty, and for comfort in the day of trial.

We have been compelled to go to God for our souls, as constant beggars asking for everything.

Remember, child of God, you have never been able to get anything for your soul anywhere else.

All the bread your soul has eaten has come down from heaven, and all the water it has drunk has flowed from the living rock—Christ Jesus the Lord.


Your soul has never grown rich in itself; it has always been dependent upon the daily provision of God; and consequently your prayers have ascended to heaven for a vast range of spiritual mercies.

Your wants were innumerable, and therefore the supplies have been infinitely great, and your prayers have been as varied as the mercies have been countless.

So then have you not reason to say, “I love the Lord, because He has heard my voice and my pleas for mercy”? For as your prayers have been many, so also have God’s answers been.

He has heard you in the day of trouble, has strengthened you and helped you, even when you dishonored Him by trembling and doubting at His throne.

Remember this, and let it fill your heart with gratitude to God, who has graciously heard your poor, weak prayers. “Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits.”
Psalm 103: 6



C. H. Spurgeon
February 6, 2025
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Faith Hopegood
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Re: “Corporate prayer before personal prayer”- CF leaders are using coercive control to take prayer away from you

Post by Faith Hopegood »

“So I want to talk now today about prayer, because I don't think we have any understanding about prayer.”
“So we don't know what to pray for and you do not know what to pray for unless the Spirit enables you to pray.
Always the gaslighter is Vic Hall (and his cronies).

I stopped going to the morning CF corporate prayer when I was in a morning prayer meeting and two things happened which were concerning and shocking.

We were praying for people who had either strayed from the christian path or left the fellowship.

Firstly, I remember praying opening and asking that God can speak to these people and open their eyes and hearts to see Gods truth (ie pretty much what the bible tells us to pray) and that the people would turn back to god. I was instantly rebuked by the leaders who said “we don’t pray like that here”.

Secondly, I was shocked at the actual prayers coming from the homegroup leaders, elders and long term CF attendees - they were essentially praying that God would drop bombs on people and ruin their lives so that the people would be turned back to the CF. They were praying that disasters and bad things would deliberately occur in peoples lives to turn their hearts to (the CF) God! This prayer continued with several people contributing.

They were essential praying spiritual curses (just like a witch doctor) on people, on relatives, on friends etc. They might as well have pulled out a voodoo doll and started whacking pins in it.

I was astounded at what I was hearing. There was no love, no care, no concern, they just wanted destruction to be the way forward. No reference to the bible, no taking our guide from the words of Christ.

This is the real side of all the Christian Fellowship and their attitude to other christians and people. It is truly appalling and completely devoid of the Fruits of the Spirit, and general love and care for their fellow man.

Vic’s understanding, belief and practice about prayer is not based on what the bible teaches and is more closely aligned to witchcraft practices in its nature and desired outcomes. And of course the fruit of witchcraft and darkness is evident for all to see - they promote shunning, breaking up husbands and wives and children in families and instead focussing on worshipping every word of the CF leader. Their counselling is for breakup and not reconcilation. They preach seperation from other christians and regularly mock other christians and other christian churches - all in the name of absolute control.
BreakFree
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Re: “Corporate prayer before personal prayer”- CF leaders are using coercive control to take prayer away from you

Post by BreakFree »

Thanks Faith hope good.
I remember this as well. I remember doing it as a child. Pretty messed up. We were forced to have these prayer sessions that were hours long. One time I was busting for the toilet so I went. Oh man did I cop it when I got back.

Thank you Helen there have been moments in my life Spurgeon's words have brought comfort
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