Agape Meals not Communion

[Hope4]

I cannot get the dismissal of the Lord’s supper out of my heart.

Surely to directly go against the words of Jesus to “do this in remembrance of Me” is a total rejection of who Jesus is?

I am grieving for all the wonderful, precious people in BCF who have been deceived into rejecting Jesus Christ.

Turn again to the Lord Jesus Christ. There is still time.

DO NOT LET Victor Hall deceive you any longer.

[Hope4]

I cannot get the dismissal of the Lord’s supper out of my heart.

Surely to directly go against the words of Jesus to “do this in remembrance of Me” is a total rejection of who Jesus is?

I am grieving for all the wonderful, precious people in BCF who have been deceived into rejecting Jesus Christ.

Turn again to the Lord Jesus Christ. There is still time.

DO NOT LET Victor Hall deceive you any longer.

Please listen to this sermon in’ Truth for Life’

Observing Communion Correctly

1 Corinthians 11:23-34
ID: 1695 • Sermon

October 10, 1993

What is the significance of Communion? When and why was it instituted?

Alistair Begg addresses these questions and more so that we might be guarded from wrong participation and guided into the right kind of participation in this sacred, symbolic meal. We should not come to the Lord's Supper flippantly but should examine our hearts, for the Lord will judge us and discipline us so that we will not be condemned with the
world.

[Dexter]

Please listen to this sermon in’ Truth for Life’

Observing Communion Correctly

1 Corinthians 11:23-34
ID: 1695 • Sermon

October 10, 1993

https://truthforlife.org/resources/serm ... correctly/

[Faith Hopegood]

I see a comment in one of the other threads about Adelaide that the Home Fellowships have just about collapsed and they now have the Agape Meal (which really is morning tea) as a replacement.

Can anyone else from the other cities and regional centres provide an update on how the home groups/home fellowship/home bible studies are going?
Do they still have home bible studies or is it just one of those "regional bible studies" that I heard about some years ago? Such as forcing all the congregation members (including the very elderly) from one regional town (where congregation numbers have dropped) to drive for over an hour to another town to have a regular regional bible study.

I suppose thinking about it - cutting home bible studies would probably fit Vic's wicked agenda better if he can replace them with regional bible studies where "the word" taught or the present word etc can be more tightly controlled by Vic's minions.

On the topic of cutting communion from the church service - I had seen this happen in another non Christian fellowship pentecostal church, where the pastor removed communion so as not to offend new people who came to church. There was an optional little table over to one side of the hall where anyone who wanted a bit of bread and wine could wander over and help themselves - it was just sad.

The pastor was one of those Type A personality types (with no real theological training - maybe a 6 week or 12 month basic course run by the denomination) and it didn't matter how many of the older wiser more faithful members of the congregation said or did - he refused to budge. The older faithful members even wrote up an open letter to him addressing all the issues but he didn't budge. That church is pretty much "Christianity Lite in their approach now. He was generally a pretty nice guy and didn't have nasty meanness that Vic Hall and the other CF leaders have - but he was still headstrong. Also speaking into this issue - when comparing the leadership structure in some of those pentecostal/charismatic types of churches - they are very much one man at the top. Whereas the clear biblical model is eldership - where a group of equals work together and in gentle brotherly love.

Speaking of eldership, I still get a bit of the old PTSD cringe when I hear the world "elders" due to the nasty Christian Fellowship experience . But I am trying to keep telling myself that the Christian Fellowship model of leadership - even though they call themselves elders - is not actually true biblical eldership - it is one man at the top (Vic Hall) ruling over all the others Australia wide.

I remember when I first went to the Fellowship some 35 years ago, one of the advertising points of difference that they said they had, was that they had true eldership - men working together in unity submitting to one another. However it became very apparent over the years that this was not the case because when men such as Vic Hall and David Falk ruled the roost, there was absolutely no eldership and submitting to one another - it was everyone submitting to Falk or submitting to Vic Hall. Any other elder who disagreed with Vic, found himself given the right book of fellowship when Vic, laying wait like a leopard, would bide his time and then kick them out when Vic felt he had a lever or advantage over them - ie illness being a popular one. (think Murray Wylie, Steve Hall, David Falk) all were chopped when they sick.

I would value other peoples opinions on this matter.

[Dexter]

I would value other peoples opinions on this matter.

From what I've seen, there seems to have been a mass exodus from Christianity in general recently with influential Christians publicly "deconstructing" their faith.

I never could have imagined VH etc 'deconstructing' communion like this though. I grew up believing he was special and better than everybody else, so it's surreal to hear that he's ditched something as fundamental as the bread and wine. On second thoughts, it makes perfect sense that he would create an intellectual abstraction like that, leading the congregation to believe that they are the bread and wine. It certainly sets them apart, which I think may be the primary goal.

I feel for the congregation, many decent and genuine people unable to voice their concerns for fear of being shunned or shamed. If that's you, my advice to you is this:

It's better to tell the truth and be excommunicated than to stay and keep lying to yourself.

I get that the prospect of leaving is terrifying. But honestly, I think it's more dangerous to stay. There have been plenty of times when I wished I'd left earlier, but I can't think of a single time I wished I'd stayed longer.

Controversial advice: you can always go back. They tell you that you won't be welcome back if you leave, but I've known enough "prodigals" to know that it's an empty threat. They'll always let you back in if you're willing to grovel at their feet again (although you may need to give up any dreams of becoming an elder or joining the elite inner circle).

Those are my opinions. If you don't like them, I have others.

[guest]

Can anyone else from the other cities and regional centres provide an update on how the home groups/home fellowship/home bible studies are going?
Do they still have home bible studies or is it just one of those "regional bible studies" that I heard about some years ago? Such as forcing all the congregation members (including the very elderly) from one regional town (where congregation numbers have dropped) to drive for over an hour to another town to have a regular regional bible study.

Home fellowship as it used to be was a victim of the pandemic restrictions of 2020. Weekly fellowship visits by elders or men firstfruits households kept people in touch with the church for a few months until the restrictions relaxed (Victoria excepted). 'House to house' fellowship replaced the Wednesday night home fellowship.

Where home fellowship used to be singing worship songs with an instrument or 2, h2h fellowship was solely fellowship and testimony around the present truth word, but with 2 or 3 households max. Typically the men (husbands/fathers) of each household would travel to a hosting house which is rotated weekly, however the arrangement was flexible and week by week. Instead of a consistent group like HF, the household groupings change monthly so folks don't get too comfortable with each other in the h2h setting, and allow the meeting of new people.

I believe bible studies are always at a church, not in the home. Breaking open the present truth word theology of what is new rather than what is true in 2 hour blocks. Folks from some regional centres do travel fair distances sometimes but I think that's intended to create a fellowship between centres more than anything.

As much as the lovely and sincere people (I truly mean that) within xCF centres around the country love to talk about the Lord taking away the veil away of their understanding in the present truth word, I can't begin to explain how much darker the veil of insulated, contradictory, heterodoxical teachings can be for one who loves the Lord.

The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

Let those who truly seek the kingdom come and see. Read the church fathers, test the great theologians and preachers of days past and present. The Holy Spirit will call you to what is true, to leave the slavery and familiarity of Egypt, to follow the Lord into the desert to rediscover the unchanging and eternal gospel which is the pearl of great price.
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[Hope4]

Thank you to those who have added to this conversation… guest, Faith and Dexter.

As time passes and Victor still rules the xCF, I am greatly encouraged in my faith that God is at work, even though the deliverance of our loved ones and friends is slow in being fulfilled.

While there is enormous harm being perpetrated against innocent men, women and children, God can heal, restore and deliver - I am certain of it.

This forum is carrying messages of hope and love to those we are separated from!!! It’s a tangible example of how God uses those who love and serve Him.

We were delivered out of that awful place and despite our wounds, God has been gracious and merciful to us. I am broken, scarred and often heartbroken for the tragic abuse but my trust in God’s sovereignty, power and love is greater than anything.

If He delivered me, He can deliver anyone.
God is love and it’s His desire that none should perish.

As we document the fall of this evil, let us pray diligently for those still trapped. I can only testify to what God is saying to my heart and I can quite honestly say, He encourages me daily that He is at work!!! Let us trust God and see Him deliver His people.

[Faith Hopegood]

Thanks for the updates Guest and Hope4.

Keep praying for those still under the false spell of Vic Hall, because hundreds (if not thousands) have left over the years and there will still be more.

Keep praying because the sheep hear the voice of the true Shepherd. The Shepherd loves the flock and gently tends to them and does not fleece the flock.

Guest, you mentioned a phrase which I have not heard before:

Weekly fellowship visits by elders or men firstfruits households

but it certainly sounds like something Vic would dream up/comes from the fellowship. "Men firstfruits households"!!!

I am sure Vic must have a whole booklet of Present Word Truth on the doctrine and theology of "Men Firstfruits households". (and of course is a must buy for the congregation members of each house).

Let me guess... it is involves faithful men (or should I say men who worship Vic), probably men who run businesses and are subservient to Vic, are generally well off financially, and they give good amounts of time and money to Vic and his minions and Vic has probably developed a doctrine as to why this is the only godly way to receive blessing. Am I close?

Looking forward to further information on this new Present Word topic and new special revelation which the remainder of Christianity has missed out on for the past 2000 years.

Love in Christ
Faith Hopegood.

[guest]

Faith Hopegood,

Forgive my typo, it was meant to be men of firstfruits households but your reply remains all the same.

Let me guess... it is involves faithful men (or should I say men who worship Vic), probably men who run businesses and are subservient to Vic, are generally well off financially, and they give good amounts of time and money to Vic and his minions and Vic has probably developed a doctrine as to why this is the only godly way to receive blessing. Am I close?

You pretty much nailed it. I don't think that was a proud time for the church as I heard varying accounts of some men bringing clipboards and taking notes which definitely weirded a few people out, though many people spoke of how much they appreciated it, so who knows.

I remember some of the firstfruits men were quite worn out driving all over town to meet with households after work. Bless them. My experience was just that it felt forced and a bit like we were kept fellowshipping around the present truth word so that we didn't sneak away during covid (as there was no on prem church for 6 months). But many may interpret that as pastoral care?

By the way, it was after this 6 months that we saw the Eucharist (not that we ever called it that) disappear as we all went without it for 6 months during lockdown.

I'd say you'll know you're a man of a firstfruits household (at least in SEQ) if you're invited to one of the Sunday evening presbytery fellowship meetings to receive the bleeding edge word from the angelos himself to "establish the ground of fellowship as firstfruits believers who care for the flock" (rolls off the tongue doesn't it).

It may have been mentioned by Vic at one of these meetings that we have 15 or 20 years left before the events of the apocalypse really kick off. I know one might suggest we are in the last days but I would love to see his math on that one (not really).

I remember the feeling of needing to be under THE lampstand administration when Christ comes. That can be a pretty powerful pull for those who buy it. Since leaving I have heard on the grape vine that the present truth word has consisted of a lot of eschatology, make of that what you will. Many have predicted Christ's return and none have succeeded yet. The Revelation of John isn't meant to be a fortune telling book but that doesn't stop it being interpreted that way.
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[Hope4]

I remember the feeling of needing to be under
THE lampstand administration
when Christ comes.
Guest

This is exactly what fear does to us. It robs us of faith and the resulting insecurity causes us to cling to anyone promising a safe place.

Truth is there is only one safe place / one safe person … Jesus Christ.

Do not listen to false teachers. Do not listen to false doctrine.

Turn again to Jesus.