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Rise of a Potential xCF-type movement in Malaysia, that is NOT associated with the xCFs, amazingly.

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:27 pm
by Thanomere84
Greetings fellow Streetcar members. Time to post an update from over here in Malaysia. As you all know, I have settled down well in my new church, and am now involved in preaching, worship leading, youth ministry and also intercession. Something recently occurred that may be interesting - the rise of a church in Malaysia, that much like the xCFs under Vic 'the Vicious Hall' Hall, proclaims to have "the one true gospel". Some of these church's people visited my church and tried to get friendly with the youths under me, as well as with other young adults, which put my pastor on high alert.

The church's name is CERC - Christ Evangelical Reformed Church. While on the surface, they seem to be a church composed of many outgoing, lively and sociable young people, apparently under the fair-looking façade on the surface, lurks something more sinister - something more divisive. The church, which is based in Malaysia's Klang Valley area (where the capital city of Kuala Lumpur is), has gained many members in college and university Christian groups. However, the problem is, once they have a lot of members in those groups, CERC members will take over the leadership of said groups, and non-CERC Christians will be left out in the cold.

Maybe it's my past trauma and what I've suffered since 2015, but this is ringing loud alarm bells in my head. I am seriously wondering, why does this group's modus operandi seem to be SO similar to that of Vic and his lackeys? Because the pattern is disturbingly similar - act like Christians, infiltrate proper and living Christian networks, slowly yet surely occupy the leadership positions, and when firmly entrenched in leadership, boot out any and every dissenting voice, and take over.

If indeed they are affiliated with the xCFs then believe me, I am going to go to war and openly denounce this group for their foul and vile agenda. But if they are not affiliated with the xCFs... then I can only say, we are truly in the end times. False Christians, false churches with all kinds of teachings that look Christian but in truth, are way off the track. May God keep all of us safe, indeed.

Re: Rise of a Potential xCF-type movement in Malaysia, that is NOT associated with the xCFs, amazingly.

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:49 pm
by Boundary Rider
Hi Thanomere,
My guess is that your alertness is well founded, as what you describe has strong similarity to what David Falk was engineering in the Asian Churches of RFI, especially in Malaysia around 2015-18.

As I recall what happened was that Falk was spending a lot of time visiting and influencing the Asian groups which Vic came to perceive as Falk positioning himself to be the Apostle of Asia in the Restoration movement. Using Falk's heart attack as the cover Vic sliced and diced Falk to outer darkness, leaving TCF seriously diminished with a congregation rattling around like dried peas in a tin in a building far too big for anything but Falk's grandiose ambitions. The rising stars at TCF under Falk are now very close to Vic. As Paul said in Colossians 3:15 "Keep Your Friends Close and Your Enemies Closer"

Does make me wonder if those Asian groups Falk influenced are providing him an income stream, unaware of his fall from Vic's graces. Any benefits he may have enjoyed in RFI were immediately cut off, and even if he is an Aged and Disabled pensioner by now It is hard to believe that Falk can sustain his lifestyle on the basis of his dog breeding.

Curious indeed.


Re: Rise of a Potential xCF-type movement in Malaysia, that is NOT associated with the xCFs, amazingly.

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 9:37 pm
by Faith Hopegood
Hello Thanomere,

Thank you for the update from Malaysia. My observation of what you have discribed and advice would be: If your spiritual radar is going off and something just doesn’t seem right regarding these CERC people, then there is probably a good reason. It is probably spiritual discernment at work. The practice of infiltrating and sheep stealing as an method of operation is not Godly behaviour. Basically the sheep know the Shepherds Voice. There is no need to go sheep stealing of other flocks if the Shepherd is speaking biblical truth because the sheep will naturally be attracted to the True Shepherd.

Also, regarding spiritual discernment, put on the armour of God each day and pray for discernment with respect to these people. Also pray for spiritual protection for the youth groups. The main warning sign here is what the CERC people are preaching - that they are one true gospel. This is a wolf dressed in sheeps clothing and takes its form in the Christian Fellowship, the Fellowship in Trinity Church in Camberwell Vic (Presbyterian) and the older Shepherding/Discipleship Movement in the USA and the Fort Lauderdale Five. (read up about them with an internet search).

Boundary Rider is correct in his comments about the RFI/CF method of operating. Even from the early days, the Christian Fellowship elders would to into a town of region and be based there for 3-6 months. During this time they would have casual discussions and talks with the ministers in the town to find out which ones might be disatisfied with their current denomination/congregation etc. Then over a period of week with ongoing discussions, which became meetings and finally plans, the CF elder would convince a minister plus a substantial part of his congregation to either jump ship to start up a CF branch in that town or completely take over a church or group of churches.

Evidence of this practice was in Brisbane in the early 1990’s with the 3 brethren churches (one based in Fortitude Valley) plus two others and also in the Wide Bay region in the mid 1980’s. The three brethren churches was described to the BCF congregation as a type of dating, engagement, marriage scenario between CF and the 3 brethren churches which culminated with the 3 brethren churches joining the BCF movement (and Vic Hall basically becoming their pope). It wasn’t without turmoil tho because one of the congregations and their elder must have smelled a rat and left after a year or so.

The situation in the Wide Bay, found CF elder Bill Barnes travelling to Maryborough in the mid 1980’s and having discussions with various groups and ministers and finally convincing a local Uniting Church minister plus half his congregation to leave the UCQ and join/create the Maryborough CF or Wide Bay CF which I think morphed into the Fraser Coast Christian Fellowship. From my understanding the Fraser Coast Christian Fellowship no longer exists as a seperate group but might have been subsumed into the Gympie/Sunshine Coast regional fellowship but I can’t confirm this. The toll on families over the 37 years since 1985 to the current date has been equally horrendous. Numerous divorces in the local eldership leadership group, families broken apart, people driven from the Christian faith and no longer having personal relationship with the Lord.

The fall out and damage of both of these sheep stealing exercises was to extract a horrendous toll on people over the years and would number into the thousands from just these two examples I gave you above. Peoples faith destroyed, childrens faith destroyed and never being able to trust the christian faith/churches again (a form of PTSD), and countless marriages destroyed and families broken apart which even still carries on to this day.

The marriage with BCF and the brethren groups added another level of ungodly poisonous group behaviour into the CF in the form of family shunning etc.

In summary, have your spiritual radar on full alert, pray in the Spirit constantly and ask God to guide you and give you discernment. Test the fruit and the theology and see how it measures up to the Gospel. Are they slightly changing the meanings of words, doctrines etc? What are they focussing on with their preaching? Does it look like they are trying to exert control over people and create a wedge and drive youth away from their parents? If any of this is going on, then alarm bells should be ringing loudly. You might not be able to put your finger on exactly what is wrong, but the Holy Spirit will guide you. If you have peace about these things, that is a good indication that spiritually wise, things are ok. However, if you do not have peace and are uneasy and don’t know why you are not at peace, this is a warning sign that something is wrong and these people are best avoided.

I hope this helps guide you.

Pray unceasingly, God is faithful in all things.

In Christ, Faith Hopegood.

Re: Rise of a Potential xCF-type movement in Malaysia, that is NOT associated with the xCFs, amazingly.

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 2:46 am
by Thanomere84
Boundary Rider and Faith Hopegood,

I've done some sleuthing on this CERC group... and some of the things I uncovered (which were most thoughtfully compiled into a .pdf file by a the leader of an interchurch organisation here in Malaysia) are downright alarming.

Some of their practices, which resonate with frightening resemblance to the xCF teachings, methodology and 'leadership' (if such tyranny and dictatorship could even qualify as leadership) are as follows:

1. Relationships are monitored, and the church usually expects young people to follow the elders' recommendation of partner/spouse. If the church member in question rejects the elders' recommendation and goes with his own choice, disapproval follows. The disapproval becomes even harsher if the member's choice is a believer from outside of CERC, or a nonbeliever. If the member does not abandon the relationship, shunning appears to be the consequence. This is the most terrifying resemblance to the xCFs.

2. Members are expected to ALWAYS, and ALWAYS be there for EVERY meeting on Sunday in CERC. Apparently, even vacations, breaks and holidays are frowned upon - if the members miss a Sunday service in CERC. This is another extremely alarming resemblance to the xCFs as I have enough recollection from my time as Vic and Falk's disciple... how they always insisted with emphasis, that being there 'to fellowship in the Word' on Sunday, was as important as having a good square meal for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day.

3. If members do end up skipping a Sunday due to unavoidable circumstances, then they are expected to catch up on the sermon which can be anywhere from FIVE to NINE HOURS in duration, and are fully expected to listen to every last second of it. They will be expected to answer questions about that sermon during cell group meetings. Failure to answer will imply that they did not listen... and again, harsh criticism and temporary shunning will ensue - this resemblance to the xCFs' cruel and unspeakably evil ganging-up practices is again, EXTREMELY disturbing.

4. They 'steal' youths from other churches by influencing them with 'love bombing' much like the xCFs. Once they've won over these new members to their ideology of 'we have the one true gospel', they use these new members to trigger an exodus from their original church by leaving it, to join CERC - bringing other like-minded youths with them.

5. CERC, by the testimony of former members who left once they sensed something wrong, has NEVER provided a clear and concise definition of the gospel they preach, which they ironically brand as 'the one true gospel'. Former members say they feel confused as the church seems to add more to the gospel with every new doctrine series that they teach. This is again eerily resemblant to the xCFs, with Vic 'the Vicious Hall' Hall claiming that 'the lampstand church' is the one true church, but has no firm definition of the gospel, instead having a vague gospel that is quite modular as he continues adding and augmenting it over the years.

6. The keyword for reprimanding and chastising members for missing out on meetings or Sundays is 'accountability'. Members who miss a Sunday are pressured to submit their weekly schedules to leaders for scrutinising, in order to help them 'keep accountability'. When I read this, it literally sent a chill down my spine... because I remember that two words are Vic's favourite drugs. His favourite among favourites is 'submission'. The close second is... yup, you guessed it. 'Accountability'.

7. I present to you the CERC declaration of faith. "We recognize no other elders or overseers in the Church than faithful pastors of the
Word of God.... As we receive the true ministers of the Word of God as messengers and ambassadors of God, it is necessary to listen to them as to him himself, and we hold their ministry to be a commission from God." Do you see some very disturbing words being used here? 'Overseer', 'true ministers' and 'messengers' are some of the xCFs' favourite terms. And here they are in centre stage of CERC's core statement. The statement itself appears to reek of Vic's favourite drug, submission.

So here we have it. CERC has some very disturbing resemblances to the xCFs. I talked about this with another member of my old church who left shortly after I was thrown out... and he made a statement that is truly food for thought. He said, "Could it be, that Vic has deemed our old network to have failed, seeing as how the member count has shrunk so dramatically, and now he's trying for another shot at dominance in Malaysia and South-East Asia, by using this CERC as his vehicle to reach that objective?" The more I think about it, the more I wonder if my friend is on to something. I hope it's not the case - but if it is... I'm prepared to go to war once again. Vic's not going to have his way in my country - not while I draw breath. He's done enough damage as it is and I won't let him do any further.

Re: Rise of a Potential xCF-type movement in Malaysia, that is NOT associated with the xCFs, amazingly.

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:47 am
by Faith Hopegood
Thank you for the summary Thanomere.
Your radar has served you well and, from what you have written above, this CERC group demonstrates all the key factors similar, and in some cases worse/stronger than the Christian Fellowship xCF groups with respect to cult control. I think you have uncovered the tip of the iceberg. Regarding their declaration of faith, they have put in writing what the xCF believed and with the words “it is necessary to listen to them as to him himself”. Right there you have men (CERC elders) being elevated to the same level and power as God. Combining this with no firm definition of the gospel they preach, you have cult control with leaders believing they are the same as God and can change/modify the preached word whenever it suits them.
These CERC people look like they will be equally as dangerous as xCF or even more dangerous.

It would be prudent, once you are sure you have collected the facts, to publish a public warning on the internet about these people and factually list the issues (similar to what you have done above) so that when people search for this group, at least they will see the warning. Make sure you protect yourself and your family Thanomere. As always, may Gods peace, protection, grace and blessings flow to you.